That seems hateful and nasty, but I have no doubt that he was drunk.
I’m sure in the morning he was sober.
Um…it’s none of your business. That was my point. I also don’t think fat people should be subject to shame, even “shame masquerading as concern for their health” solely for being fat. I was using the examples I gave upthread as unhealthy states that aren’t as obvious to an outside observer as obesity. And an alcoholic, even one who is currently holding down a job and a baseline level of social responsibility (no drunk driving, no beating the kids, etc.) is still harming his or her own health, just in a less apparent way.
As is the thin person with multiple healthcare issues.
As is the old person with multiple healthcare issues.
As is the person with multiple healthcare issues who doesn’t have good healthcare coordination.
BTW, “society” already pays for healthcare.
I’m going to be disappointed in my friends and acquaintances when standing for an hour (or taking a walk, or riding bikes, or climbing trees, or throwing a football, etc.) constitutes such significant physical effort that they’d rather avoid it than participate in whatever fun activity might require it.
The same way people are discouraged from being jerks, smelling bad, or wearing stripes with sandals. Gentle, and – as we can see with body odor or assholishness – not very effective societal pressure. I’m not proposing a law, or even treating people poorly for not living up to the expectation. I’m just proposing that the expectation is there.
Back in the days when we had PE, I remember feeling ashamed that I wasn’t as fit or as athletic as the others kids. I couldn’t run around the track. I couldn’t do jumping jacks. My face was waiting to catch every ball that came flying my way. The teacher would yell at me, the kids would laugh at me. I dreaded PE even though I did my best to be a good sport about everything.
If all that wasn’t enough to turn me into a fit person, then no amount of polite shaming would have done it either.
No, what turned me into a more active person was realizing I could do physical activity at my own pace, in my own way. Once you start conceptualizing activity as “fitness”, you’re essentially comparing your performance to everyone else. Which then makes it a competitive thing…or something that can be source of embarrassment and shame. It becomes “Haha, you can’t run up six flight of stairs! Look at how out of shape you are!” Instead of “Wow, you walk two miles a day and do pilates every other day. That’s awesome.”
Uh, no! It should not be forced on us! :eek:
Full disclosure, I’m a bit of a gym rat, but when the comparison with general hygiene, I would argue, yes, there should be a social obligation to fitness. Now, I wouldn’t expect everyone to exercise as much I do; hell, I’ll even admit myself that I likely overdo it some. But there’s overall a pretty large area that is reasonable. Really, the attitude that gets to me is when someone seems to either flaunt that they have a bad habit or skill or health and take offense when other people even just notice it, muchless call them out on it.
To that extent, with comparison to brushing teeth, my fitness is like someone who brushes after every meal. Frankly, I don’t really care how much one brushes or doesn’t, but if they have rancid breath that I can smell several feet away, or their teeth are disgusting to even look at, that’s something else. I used to be acquainted with someone who drank a ton of soda and didn’t even own a tooth brush, and his teeth were varying shades of brown and black; they were quite literally rotting out of his head, and his breath was awful.
The thing is, in general, I’ve never met anyone who came close to him in terms of bad oral hygiene, but I regularly run into people who not only make no effort to care for their health at all. Just like he drank Mountain Dew and never brushed, quite a number of people eat only junk food and never exercise.
But just like that, not everyone can have perfect teeth. Some people brush at least twice a day and floss regularly and still get damaged teeth and cavities, others put in very little effort and their teeth look fine. In the same way, there are people I see at the gym fairly often and put in a decent effort, definitely above what most people do, and they’re still fat. Hell, they’d probably have to work out as much as I do to not be fat. I don’t care if someone is fat, I care if someone is unhealthy.
So, I still think fat shaming is a bad thing, but that also doesn’t mean that one should be content to do nothing about their health. It’s like, not everyone has perfect teeth, but there’s no way your teeth will turn brown and black if you’ve got even remotely passable oral hygiene short of some extraordinarily rare disease. By the same token, not everyone is skinny, but there’s no way one gets to be morbidly obese on a remotely reasonable diet and even just a little exercise.
And further, at the same time, I know people who are reasonably thin, but have poor diets and don’t exercise, and I’m equally as hard on them. For instance, one guy I work with recently mentioned going on a walk for some reason and how he had cramps and soreness a couple days later, from something like a mile walk. I don’t expect everyone to run a 6-minute mile, but just walking in at a 15-20 minute pace and still being sore a couple days later… that’s a problem. Or someone else I know mentioned his nephew failed the preliminary test to get into the Army, because his mile time was 15 minutes. That’s a walking pace, maybe slightly fast, but even when compelled by wanting to get into the Army, that being the best he could do, that’s not going to cut it. Both of these people look just fine, but apparently, neither has any sort of exercise regimen.
Hell, I’m happy just to hear people say they go for a brisk 30-minute walk 3 times a week. I don’t expect 12 hours a week of intense training like I do. But, for the love of God, at least do SOMETHING.
And on this, there’s other things like this that somehow society accepts are things that are okay to be bad at, that really shouldn’t be. For example, when I hear people say “I’m bad at math”. Seriously? You’re an adult that can’t multiple two 2-digit numbers without a calculator, or you need a calculator to work out a tip at a restaurant (not that you use one, but that you can’t if you don’t have one). That’s like Third or Fourth grade skill, give or take. But people are ashamed to admit, and generally will be looked down upon for it, if they admit that they are illiterate.
The biggest problem in the world is ‘intolerance.’
My Dad at 84. The doctor said that a pacemaker would extend his life.
My Dad asked if it would improve his life.
The doctor said no.
Dad said said no because he did not like his life as it was nor want to extend it .
Having a longer life in no way means it will be good.
Healthy is good, but not healthy is not always a choice.
No a guy, 38 years old at the time. Never smoked nor was around it a lot. Was a good runner. Ate very healthy food and died of lung cancer within 6 months of being diagnosed.
Over all, healthy is better. But how do you know for each individual?
So, just an up tic in the social contract of being in the US of A? What is the plan to make this happen? If you are counting on posts on the SDMB, you are in need of more education IMO. 
Good post, Blaster Master.
I think in our current society fitness is only considered obligatory if you’re fat, and the assumption is that any fat person is not fit.
It’s a hell of a lot easier to get in shape than it is to lose lots of weight. I am in pretty good shape physically due to regular periods of vigorous exercise, but I am not thin.
I’ve always found it interesting that fat people get shit for not exercising but those same people who dish out the judgment will mention in the next breath they got 3 hours of sleep the night before, which is one of the worst things you can do to yourself.
Hypocrites, all of us.
This is all about what individuals should do, and I think it’s sound. The OP is more about society’s expectations, which does tend to invoke the idea of shaming people.
With all due respect, I walk at least two miles every day, I work out for at least an hour several times a week, and my BMI shows me as obese. In the past year, a rigorous, regular program of diet and exercise has enabled me to lose a total of nine pounds, and it doesn’t look like my body wants to lose much more.
Although I don’t have adult onset diabetes or high blood pressure, I don’t think I’d pass your fitness judgment. But my doctor is satisfied, and his opinion counts more.
Fun game: everyone in this thread posts their height/weight/gender, and we see how that affects the discussion.
(note: Probably that would not be a fun game. Would be interesting, though.)
Why? As long as I am doing my job, and taking care of my responsibilities, why do you care if I have to stop for a few moments after two flights of stairs? Why would I need to lift a gallon of milk over my head? I have a desk job, and the activity I like the most is a sedentary one. I also enjoy eating and dislike exercise. I do take the point that if you like physical activities and I can’t keep up, we wouldn’t be compatible as friends, but that’s as far as it goes. One doesn’t need to be looked down on.
So far I am a healthy fat person – my numbers are good. If they start to look worse I can re-evaluate for my own health, not because someone thinks I look gross.
As a really fat person who enjoys food a lot, I’ve thought a lot about this too. The amount of unhappiness I would have to put into losing weight and keeping it off just isn’t outweighed by the supposed health benefits. Extending a life that is full of not ever being able to eat what I want in the quantity I want is just more time to be unhappy.
One can have fitness and fatness at the same time and have the lack of each simultaneously too. Don’t conflate the two even if they are sometimes correlated. Fitness may be more important than lack of fatness, both for mortality and for future functioning.
How about not making it obligatory to be fit but creating an environment that minimally does not make unfitness/sedentary lifestyle the default state?
As a slight hijack, WTF is up with all the psychotically tangent dental comments?
I recently saw the most disgustingly foul old man with really bad removable teeth. He was running a tree service removing trees in my neighborhood. He wasn’t all that fat, but he was fat… but that was far from the worst thing about him.
He walked up the the car I was pulling up in and commented me on my nice smile, all the while looking over my shoulder at my kid in the backseat. He did this while his false teeth oozed around in his mouth in drooling glee,
like a cross between Bad Inspector Gadget & a Creepy Mr Bubble.
He saw I was looking at his bad plastic choppers, so he pulled them out and saliva and phlegm poured out in a stream onto the street in front of him. He then looked at my kid in the back seat again & laughed like a madman in a bad comedy.
Everything about him screamed “Pedophile” as his red clownish face framed by bright white Bozo the clown hair leered at my 10 year old kid.
I got my kid inside my house as quickly as I could, but I couldn’t help but be worried about the creep in the street outside my home. Just to make sure I wasn’t imagining it, I later opened the door and looked out.
He was still there, but now he was sitting in a car. He was wearing a huge bright white lollipop panama lollipop that would have been too big for Bella Abzug and he was trying to suck on a lollipop.
Green goo from the lollipop had dripped from the slack corners of his mouth down the front of his white Tee-shirt in a straight line. He seemed to see me and waved, causing a big gob of green to drip off of his chin and onto his shirt.
I shut the door.
If there had been a disgusting dental-damaged freaks thread, I would have posted this there, but so many people are listing their dental horror show freak stories here that this thread just seemed appropriate.
Here, and in many other posts, there’s an attempt to make my position some strawman in support of hating fat people. That’s not the case. It is a good way of shifting focus.
Obviously being underweight is terrible for your health. Obviously there are certain circumstances where a person has a legitimate reason for being obese, but odds are you’re not one of those people.
Look at this man. He is quite possibly the greatest fighter to ever live, and at least as athletic as anybody in the NBA or NFL. He’ll never win a physique competition, but he’s fit.
Look at this man. Probably nobody alive today can take him in a fight. He’s not rocking 6 pack abs. But he is very fit.
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So, please, do us all a favor and don’t make absurd reductions. Valuing fitness does not equal hating fat people.
See post 18 supra.
QFT
Everything you do in life costs you time. What you’re essentially saying is that you want people to give up time for something they value in order to give time to something you value. And you want to use societal pressure to do it instead of just finding friends who are interested in what you are interested in.