# Should Flag Burning Be Illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613 "2003-09-24T19:29:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/21 "2003-09-24T23:43:07Z")
Add me to the “It should not be illegal and the constitution shouldn’t be amended to make it illegal” camp. I believe it has been said before, many times, that what the 1st amendment truly protects is our right to _unpopular_ speech. Otherwise nobody could speak their mind in opposition to the government. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/22 "2003-09-25T01:08:56Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/23 "2003-09-25T01:26:53Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/24 "2003-09-25T01:31:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Should Flag Burning Be Illegal? \*\* I’d second the above no’s, and add a “Hell No” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/25 "2003-09-25T01:46:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpaceForRent \* > **This debate has always fascinated me. I always assumed (for whatever reason) that Conservatives would oppose a ban on flag burning and Liberals would support the ban. Come to find out, it was completely the opposite.** I’m curious - why would you make this assumption? ---
**Author:** ![Thunderstruck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Thunderstruck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thunderstruck)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/26 "2003-09-25T01:59:00Z")
Regardless of my feelings on the subject. I can`t help but see some hypocracy in flag burning, or many other forms of protest. Reason being…they are protesting\burning the very Country\symbol of the Country that gives them the right to do so. I remember seeing one of the few personal interviews saddam hussein granted. You could see he was absolutley dumbfounded when he was told people could voice their opinion of Pres. Bush & hold anti-government protests without fear of reprisal. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/27 "2003-09-25T03:01:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Want the opinions of a retired Petty Officer First Class, US Navy? Well, here it is: (1) The flag’s not sacred & therefore can’t be desecrated. (2) Flag burning should not be illegal as it’s protected free speech. \*\* Well put, chief. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/28 "2003-09-25T03:04:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\*But they > needed a symbol, something to inspire the new nation. > Something to represent the serious purpose and conviction > we held for our new idea of individual freedom. Something > worth living for. Something worth dying for. I wonder how > they’d feel about burning a flag? Given that they didn’t even settle on a standard design until after the kerfuffle was over (the “Betsy Ross” story was made up about 100 years later), I’d say that they wouldn’t like it but they wouldn’t treat it as seriously as some modern flag cultists would. The extent of feelings that some people have about the flag is nothing short of political idolatry. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/29 "2003-09-25T03:08:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > an American flag. Isn’t that sacred? I don’t seem to recall any mention of it in any religion’s writings… > [@](#): > > Symbols are needed though…apply the same principals to say the cross…the KKK burns a cross good or bad?..freedom or hate crime? same difference… How is the KKK protesting against Christianity when they burn a cross? ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/30 "2003-09-25T03:13:39Z")
Burning the flag is the Federally mandated means of correct and respectful disposal of a damaged or despoiled flag. This is, in fact, the origin of burning the flag in protest: it is a claim that the actions of whoever is being protested has despoiled the flag so that it must be given a respectful funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Babbington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mr.Babbington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Babbington)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/31 "2003-09-25T03:52:39Z")
You know, to me at least, flying the flag upside-down make much more of a statement. And by the way, when was the last time anyone saw anyone burn the flag? I haven’t seen it in my lifetime. Is flag-burning even relevant anymore? Or is it just something that gets drummed up along with all the other jingoistic nonsense that always seems to follow a Republican march to war? So what if it’s illegal? If someone is angry enough to burn the American flag, they’ll do it, 28th Amendment or not. I can see the convo now: Potential Flag Burner: I hate my country, I shall burn the flag! ARRRGH!!! Potential Flag Burner’s friend: You know, PFB, there’s a constitutional amendment against that. PFB: Yes. I hadn’t thought of it that way. Thank you for reminding me that I revere the Constitution and all that it stands for, evidenced by my willingness to burn the flag of my country. I shall put away my kerosene and zippo directly. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/32 "2003-09-25T04:35:38Z")
Hell no. It’s just a piece of cloth. If you burn one, it is for symbolic value only, a form of expression. The burning of it doesn’t actually hurt anyone. So, why one earth would anyone think of making illegal a “crime” that clearly doesn’t have a victim? Not to mention the right of free speech/expression, which overarches all. No! ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/33 "2003-09-25T05:05:28Z")
If folks didn’t get so upset by flagburners there probably wouldn’t be much sense in burning them. I don’t care for it but I’m not gonna give’m the satisfaction of getting me upset about it either. BTW, It is against the law in many cities to burn a flag in a public place in the city limits. It’s against the city firecodes and has nothing to do with it being a flag…could be a bag of trash or whatever. It’s a minimum $200 fine here IIRC. They’ll be wanting to ban burning bibles next. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/34 "2003-09-25T05:44:16Z")
Americans don’t revere their flag nearly as much as they think they ought to… -car dealerships nationwide are all involved in a sort of unofficial contest to fly as many flags as possible -all kinds of clothing carries the flag, or facsimilies thereof… my American Eagle sweater, here, has a little flag patch sewn on. Would I then be in contravention of a flag burning amendment if I burned my sweater? In any case, any flag that is alterable cannot be all that revered- and ours certainly is. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/35 "2003-09-25T05:51:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMensch \* > Well put, chief. Aw, shucks. \ Thanks, MonkeyMensch. I never even got to take the advancement exam for Chief 'cause I decided I’d rather be paid to not be there than paid to be there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/36 "2003-09-25T10:20:20Z")
Is there a difference between burning a flag and shouting “FUCK AMERICA!” (or “I HATE THE WAY AMERICA IS GOING, AND BUT I WANT TO PUT THAT RIGHT BECAUSE I LOVE IT REALLY!” or “I LOVE AMERICA, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS ME TO MAKE UNPOPULAR POLITICAL STATEMENTS LIKE FLAG BURNING, PLEASE DON’T TAKE THAT AWAY!”)? As far as I can see the one is a physical expression of the other so one should be banned if and only if the other should be. Should we ban expressing dissillusionment/hate/usage of freedoms? Off the top of my head the only reasons for banning an opinion is: 1. If it’s a threat to someone. 2. It’s so obscene it would corrupt anyone seeing it. 3. It would promote an illegal activity. Which of these is expresing distaste for the country. Can’t you see that legislating people to like their country is one of the scariest thing that happened in totalitarian countries? ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/37 "2003-09-25T12:05:20Z")
I think that you have overlooked the fact that the burning of the US flag, ANY countries flag is meant to be a statement by the burner that he/she feels so strongly about an issue that the burning of the flag is meant to symbolise the destruction of the country that flag represents. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/38 "2003-09-25T12:09:38Z")
This is something that won’t play in the heartland, but you can make FIRE illegal in public – as **JM** noted. You just can’t make flag burning illegal because it is transparently, obviously, nothing but a restriction on speech. Everyone knows – some pretend not to – that the law will not be applied to anyone, but will be applied to political dissidents (knobs, jerks, assholes, whatever). We don’t need freedom for the speech everyone likes. The fact that flag burning is the proper means of disposal just highlights the impossiblity of fairness inherent within a flag burning law. Of course, that won’t stop everyone predisposed to from getting overwrought about the non-existent flag burning “problem.” One guy burns a flag in Texas – the SC has already been involved, now the Constitution gets amended? Talk about your overreactions. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/39 "2003-09-25T12:13:29Z")
It’s just an effing flag, you may say it stands for freedom, etc., but it’s still just a piece of cloth ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613/40 "2003-09-25T12:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spogga \* > \*\*I think that you have overlooked the fact that the burning of the US flag, ANY countries flag is meant to be a statement by the burner that he/she feels so strongly about an issue that the burning of the flag is meant to symbolise the destruction of the country that flag represents. \*\* This is an opinion, _not_ a fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-flag-burning-be-illegal/203613.md?page=3)