# Should Gary Johnson and Jill Stein be included in first POTUS debate on 9/26? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409 "2016-08-29T16:29:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/81 "2016-08-31T21:43:47Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > We might be, but so what? Well, it is the thread topic. “Should” thus-and-so happen. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/82 "2016-08-31T22:23:49Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yeah, Perot got himself on stage. And the major parties are never going to allow that to happen again, and will craft the “rules” of the “debate commission” such that it won’t happen. I think they’re pretty locked in to the current obstacle of 15% popularity. As seen in this thread, it “feels” to many as a low bar but historically it’s pretty damn difficult. If you raise the bar much more you lose that and start looking transparently obstructive. And you can’t be sure the main parties are always going to agree about excluding third parties because sometimes they think it’ll bleed the other guy’s support or some other strategic reason. Reagan didn’t immediately go along with Carter’s demand to exclude Anderson. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/83 "2016-09-01T02:58:30Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Is it so unimaginable that we might be better served by a process in which the perspectives to challenge the leading candidates originate on the stage? If that is the point then why have any threshold? Invite a representative of the American Nazi party, the Communists, and all of the other, what is hundred? of other fringe parties too. They will be certainly challenge the leading candidates’ perspectives as well. What is the rationale to not have them all, the more different the perspective than the mainstream to more they should be there, if the purpose is to have gadflies on the stage challenging the perspectives those who are serious contenders for actually winning the election? ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/84 "2016-09-01T11:31:42Z")
Debate participation should be limited to parties that got at least 10% of the vote in the previous election. If you leave it up to polls, well then I’d like to see Sofia Vergara up there, and pretty I’m sure I could get her up to 15% in polls if I put my back into it. These third party candidates are like the assholes who jump the line at the last second when there’s a half mile backup to take a freeway exit. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/85 "2016-09-01T13:11:54Z")
If I were Johnson, I’d have a live stream going during the debate and dissect both sides’ points. And I’d have the platform to myself during the adverts. Win win! ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/86 "2016-09-01T13:12:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If I were Johnson, I’d have a live stream going during the debate and dissect both sides’ points. And I’d have the platform to myself during the adverts. Win win! There aren’t ads during presidential debates ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/87 "2016-09-01T15:00:09Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > But you’re a Libertarian. Doesn’t Johnson speak for you? Ideally he would, but he is a terrible public speaker and does not have any well-crafted responses to questions that he should know are going to be asked. He’s trying so hard to look cool and laid back that he can’t formulate intelligible answers. He sometimes musters a halfway decent statement in support of the market economy, which is more than I can expect from other national figures (I’m using that term very loosely). ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/88 "2016-09-01T18:26:03Z")
I saw Johnson speak for the first time on Samantha Bee’s show Monday. Does he really talk with that stranger, halting way of speaking? He’s like Frank Costanza! ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/89 "2016-09-01T23:11:53Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So should all 4 candidates be permitted in the 9/26 debate? After that if you don’t have at least 15%, then you’re out. There are more than just 4 candidates for President. - There’s 3 candidates besides Trump/Clinton that are on 20+ state ballots. Why should we exclude Castle of the Constitution Party but let Stein and Johnson get a free pass to the debate stage? The only polls I’ve seen that include third party candidates aren’t even asking about Castle so of course he’s getting no support by name. - There’s another 5 candidates on the ballot in 5-19 states. - There’s another 22 candidates on the ballot in less than 5 states. - I’m not even counting the pages and pages of people with announced write in candidates. IN some states they’ll have had to register to get write in votes counted so for some it’s more formal than simply putting up a web page. There has to be some cut off. 15% in polls seems a bit high. I don’t know if I’d go lower than 5% (which would open a window for Johnson but not Stein.) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/90 "2016-09-02T01:45:44Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > There has to be some cut off. 15% in polls seems a bit high. I don’t know if I’d go lower than 5% (which would open a window for Johnson but not Stein.) 15% is low: it’s very generous. As noted upthread, Perot crossed that line, but got creamed in the general. There’s no reason to have nonviable candidates on the main stage. > [@Quartz](#): > > If I were Johnson, I’d have a live stream going during the debate and dissect both sides’ points. And I’d have the platform to myself during the adverts. Win win! Johnson and Stein could easily have a mock debate with a 1-2 hour delay. Their moderators could adapt the questions of the main debate and direct them at the wannabees. They could even reply to Trump and Clinton’s answers. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/91 "2016-09-02T03:10:13Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > There are more than just 4 candidates for President. Yep, that’s why I voted ‘no’ in the poll. There’s several reasonable arguments for including Johnson (on track to be on the ballot in all states, polling a high percentage, and the like) but I really can’t see a reasonable cutoff that includes Stein but not the others. It’s interesting that you hear libertarians insist that they should be allowed in the debate, but none explain how that fits with libertarian philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/92 "2016-09-02T04:48:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > 15% is low: it’s very generous. As noted upthread, Perot crossed that line, but got creamed in the general. There’s no reason to have nonviable candidates on the main stage. If that’s your goal then 15% isn’t generous, it’s stupid. Also mentioned upthread, Wallace only got 13% but actually picked up electoral votes. So if you wanted only viable candidates you’d make the bar something meaningful to the actual scoreboard. Like polling first or second place in at least 10 states. If your goal is to give a forum to people who have leadership ideas thought best by a significant proportion of the country, 15% seems a tad high. As I said, that’s higher than the African American population. Only a little below the Hispanic population. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/93 "2016-09-02T05:43:58Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > I saw Johnson speak for the first time on Samantha Bee’s show Monday. Does he really talk with that stranger, halting way of speaking? He’s like Frank Costanza! Yeah, that’s kinda how he’s always been when I’ve seen him interviewed. The sillier moments were likely that he just gets the sense of humor of the show and was playing along in a way most politicians would never consider. Don’t get me wrong, the guy is very much a goof but he does have experience as Governor of a state for two terms who left office still pretty damn popular. Same can be said for his running mate William Weld. And neither of them left their respective states in a shambles. In fact, I don’t think the Libertarians have ever had a ticket with two people on it who have had as much success governing as they do this election cycle. But that doesn’t change the fact they have no chance of winning a single state or polling much above 10% nationally. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/94 "2016-09-02T07:45:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If your goal is to give a forum to people who have leadership ideas thought best by a significant proportion of the country, 15% seems a tad high. As I said, that’s higher than the African American population. Only a little below the Hispanic population. Just because 15% of people say they’d vote for someone they might not have ever heard of 6 months ago doesn’t mean that person has leadership ideas they think are best. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409/95 "2016-09-02T13:06:24Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > …Either way, I think getting an extra view point or two can only help political discourse. We need to make it easier to get some dissenting voices or nothing is going to change. And, again, I don’t think it’s necessarily about winning as much as it is at least getting some of those voices heard, otherwise we really are a tyranny of the majority or, maybe not even that much, a tyranny of the plurality. So let your guys buy some airtime. Or push their websites. Or hand out leaflets. Or run electable candidates in less prestigious races–some of which they might have\* some chance\* of winning. The purpose of these debates is to let people hear the leading candidates for President. Without distraction. (Trump thrives on distraction.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-be-included-in-first-potus-debate-on-9-26/764409.md?page=4)