# Should gay people be allowed to spawn? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413 "2010-08-16T14:01:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/1 "2010-08-16T14:01:13Z")
Neil Patrick Harris and his partner David Bertka are expecting twins via a surogate mother. My sister the lesbian’s parnter had two children via AID. Mrs. Hal Briston was a gestational surrogate for a gay couple. What are thoughts on this? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/2 "2010-08-16T14:02:53Z")
How should we stop them? Judo? A flippant response, but seriously: I can’t imagine much more odious infringement on liberty than telling a person they’re not allowed to procreate. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/3 "2010-08-16T14:05:08Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > What are thoughts on this? Congratulations! Is it a Boy or a Girl? Are they handing out cigars? Other than that I don’t think its much of my business. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/4 "2010-08-16T14:07:26Z")
When did this become society’s business, or the government’s? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/5 "2010-08-16T14:07:30Z")
Well, as you know, gay people have been spawning (what a charming expression) since there is gay people, they just did it the old-fashioned way. Same as fertile straights, come to think of it. Now, there are several questions one may be looking at: 1. Should gay people be allowed to spawn? A: What do you propose as an alternative, forced sterilization? For what Kinsey number ranges, extreme gayness, bi, has looked at someone from the same gender and thought “nice ass” once? 2. Should gay people be able to use assisted fertility methods? A: Same as straights, yes. 3. Should that be covered under whatever health schemes are in place locally? A: In my opinion, those schemes shouldn’t take sexual orientation into account. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/6 "2010-08-16T14:10:12Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Neil Patrick Harris and his partner David Bertka are expecting twins via a surogate mother. My sister the lesbian’s parnter had two children via AID. Mrs. Hal Briston was a gestational surrogate for a gay couple. > > What are thoughts on this? Thoughts on this are just fine. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/7 "2010-08-16T14:11:14Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Neil Patrick Harris and his partner David Bertka are expecting twins via a surogate mother. My sister the lesbian’s parnter had two children via AID. Mrs. Hal Briston was a gestational surrogate for a gay couple. > > What are thoughts on this? Explain to me what, in your view, is the harm of gay people ‘spawning’, as you put it, and maybe we can move on from there. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/8 "2010-08-16T14:13:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How should we stop them? Fabulously! > [@](#): > > A flippant response, but seriously: I can’t imagine much more odious infringement on liberty than telling a person they’re not allowed to procreate. But it wouldn’t contravene the text of the Federal Constitution. Only an activist judge would strike such a law down. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/9 "2010-08-16T14:19:51Z")
Every piece of literature I’ve seen on the issue has concluded that gay couples are equal, if not better, at parenting than straights. While I don’t find it too hard to dismiss the “better” notion as self-selection bias\*, I don’t see any reason why a gay couple shouldn’t have a baby. \*How many straight couples have “oops” babies? How many gay couples? Which do you think would be better at raising kids? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/10 "2010-08-16T14:25:03Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Neil Patrick Harris and his partner David Bertka are expecting twins via a surogate mother. My sister the lesbian’s parnter had two children via AID. Mrs. Hal Briston was a gestational surrogate for a gay couple. > > What are thoughts on this? I’ve got no problem with it. Since you brought it up in the first place, what are _your_ thoughts on it? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/11 "2010-08-16T14:34:09Z")
If anything, maybe we should stop straight people from spawning. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/12 "2010-08-16T14:36:34Z")
I think it’s fantastic when people who dearly want to become parents but aren’t able through traditional means are able to find a way of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/13 "2010-08-16T14:39:32Z")
I don’t know what the OP is getting at. Even the most religious, conservative person on this MB isn’t going to support a ban on gay people “spawning”. As for me, as long as they can swim upriver, I say let them spawn 'til dawn! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/14 "2010-08-16T14:44:13Z")
Jeez, **Annie** , was your account hacked? Or is this a parody of another thread I missed? It doesn’t sound like you in the OP. But…just in case you’re off your meds\* or somethin’ and want an actual answer, I’ll join the chorus with: my thoughts are somewhere between “none of my business” and “Congratulations! What a cute baby! My babysitting rates start at $10 an hour,” depending on how well I know the spawners in question. \*rhetorically speaking. **Annie** ’s not on or off any pertinent meds that I know of. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/15 "2010-08-16T14:47:47Z")
It is none of my business. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/16 "2010-08-16T14:48:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How should we stop them? Judo? > > A flippant response, but seriously: I can’t imagine much more odious infringement on liberty than telling a person they’re not allowed to procreate. Under your legal analysis though, it would be “Constitutional”, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/17 "2010-08-16T14:49:49Z")
What the hell are you trying to do in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/18 "2010-08-16T14:50:02Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > How should we stop them? > > Fabulously! > > > [@](#): > > > > A flippant response, but seriously: I can’t imagine much more odious infringement on liberty than telling a person they’re not allowed to procreate. > > But it wouldn’t contravene the text of the Federal Constitution. Only an activist judge would strike such a law down. Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of ‘activist.’ It’s true that the text of the Constitution is silent on the precise issue. But there is long-standing case law that supports the proposition that procreation is a basic liberty. In 1942, in _Skinner v. Oklahoma_, the court discussed a law permitting sterilization of habitual criminals, and said: > [@](#): > > The power to sterilize, if exercised, may have subtle, far-reaching and devastating effects. In evil or reckless hands, it can cause races or types which are inimical to the dominant group to wither and disappear. There is no redemption for the individual whom the law touches. Any experiment which the State conducts is to his irreparable injury. He is forever deprived of a basic liberty. And there is long-standing case law that the the Constitution protects liberties that are basic, that are implied by th every concept of ordered liberty, as discussed in 1937’s _Palko v. Connecticut_: > [@](#): > > In these and other situations immunities that are valid as against the federal government by force of the specific pledges of particular amendments have been found to be implicit in the concept of ordered liberty, and thus, through the Fourteenth Amendment, become valid as against the states. You could perhaps argue that the judges in 1939 and 1942 were activist. But even if they were, it’s too late to correct that error. Today, those concepts are a basic part of our jurisprudence, with substantial portions of constitutional framework underpinned by their rationale. Upsetting the applecart by making such a sweeping change would itself be activist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/19 "2010-08-16T14:51:20Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > How should we stop them? Judo? > > > > A flippant response, but seriously: I can’t imagine much more odious infringement on liberty than telling a person they’re not allowed to procreate. > > Under your legal analysis though, it would be “Constitutional”, wouldn’t it? See above. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413/20 "2010-08-16T14:51:38Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Jeez, **Annie** , was your account hacked? Or is this a parody of another thread I missed? It doesn’t sound like you in the OP. > > But…just in case you’re off your meds\* or somethin’ and want an actual answer, I’ll join the chorus with: my thoughts are somewhere between “none of my business” and “Congratulations! What a cute baby! My babysitting rates start at $10 an hour,” depending on how well I know the spawners in question. > \*rhetorically speaking. **Annie** ’s not on or off any pertinent meds that I know of. 😉 In her defense, I don’t think her post indicates that she is against it, and I hope she just used the term “spawn” as a cute shortcut. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gay-people-be-allowed-to-spawn/550413.md?page=2)