# Should Girls in Afghanistan Schools be more newsworthy as an ISAF success story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070 "2013-12-24T08:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/61 "2013-12-28T21:08:42Z")
Let’s approach this issue from another angle. Suppose that you, the OP, were able to inform every American adult of the fact that 10x as many girls (or whatever the number is) are now going to school. Every American adult now knows this. What would they do with that information? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/62 "2013-12-28T21:57:06Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > According to this report the growth of primary school enrollment in Afghanistan has risen from 1 million in 2001 to 10.5 million in 2013 with over 40 percent of those enrollment numbers being girls. Yep, “primary school” eg. up to age 11 - 1 million children get to 12th grade, mostly boys. And please tell us what you know of the quality of teaching and what is taught, how many are in each class, are there sufficient teachers for the students to be in age-specific classes, are the primary school children tested and examined? Google Images \> Afghan schools: It ain’t Springfield out there. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/63 "2013-12-28T21:59:40Z")
The question in the OP contains the wore ‘more ’ as in More Newsworthy’ so there is no need to drown this topic in minutia squabbles about proving how much that story has been covered. The question is should it be more than what is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/64 "2013-12-28T22:02:11Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The question in the OP contains the wore ‘more ’ as in More Newsworthy’ so there is no need to drown this topic in minutia squabbles about proving how much that story has been covered. The question is should it be more than what is. Without knowing “what is”, that cannot be answered. If I said to you: _Jamie needs to drink more water._ Would you agree, disagree, or ask how much water Janie is drinking? Also, please answer the question in post #61. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/65 "2013-12-28T22:37:14Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > OK I accept your explanation but I don’t believe it matters one iota to the subject to this thread, whether that Afghan man talking about his aunts was an exaggeration or just made up with, specifically the way translations to English affect the point he may have been trying to convey. My point remains however that the number of girls educated now compared to if we had left the Taliban in power or retake power after the 911 attacks is a fundamentally crucial statistic in forecasting the potential for ISAF and Afghan Army and Police success in holding off the Taliban from enforcing their cruel and uncivilized doctrine of no girls being educated ever again. I’m not attacking your point. I’m glad to know there are 4m Afghan girls in schools, and I certainly think it’s worth knowing about. I wasn’t making any particular point except that the part I mentioned seems a little unlikely to me. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/66 "2013-12-29T00:09:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But the fact remains that our goal in Afghanistan was not to get more girls in school I’ve already said that. You need not repeat it as if you are telling me some fact that I do not accept. Apparently you agree with me so why not just say so? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/67 "2013-12-29T00:13:20Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I’m not attacking your point. I’m glad to know there are 4m Afghan girls in schools, and I certainly think it’s worth knowing about. I wasn’t making any particular point except that the part I mentioned seems a little unlikely to me. I don’t think you are attacking my point. I understand your explanation. I asked that you consider there may be a translation issue about what the Afghan man was saying about his aunts and I believe we should cut non- English speaking common Afghan folk some slack. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/68 "2013-12-29T00:29:53Z")
So, just to summarize: 1. The OP is unable to tell us how much this story has been reported and so there is no way to know if it needs to be reported “more”. 2. The OP has failed to establish **why** it’s important for Americans to know this fact, and so has failed to establish that it even needs to be reported at all. Looks like a complete failure to defend his own thesis. We understand, of course, that the OP would **like** for this story to reported more, but to be blunt: so what? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/69 "2013-12-29T00:39:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’re leaving, and whatever happens in the future happens. We are not leaving as you explained it last March. Or does the December John Mace declare the March John Mace to be in error? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/70 "2013-12-29T00:45:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, just to summarize: > > 1. The OP is unable to tell us how much this story has been reported and so there is no way to know if it needs to be reported “more”. > > 2. The OP has failed to establish **why** it’s important for Americans to know this fact, and so has failed to establish that it even needs to be reported at all. > > Looks like a complete failure to defend his own thesis. We understand, of course, that the OP would **like** for this story to reported more, but to be blunt: so what? Since when is there a time limit on responding to your argumentuve nature? First things first such as cleaning up your inconsistencies and errors. I respond in order of people whose opinions and thoughts I respect. So please relax sit back and wait your turn. I suggest you look at the OP question and asked yourself if you have tried to answer it as YOU see it or if you are just trying to pester the one who asked it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/71 "2013-12-29T00:52:40Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Since when is there a time limit… Take all the time you need. Right now, it’s objectively clear that you have failed to establish either of those things. You have simply stated your thesis and have utterly failed to defend it. If you are holding some clever argument for just the right time, we’ll patently wait until that time comes. But as it is, your thesis is unproven. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/72 "2013-12-29T00:55:38Z")
John Mace has not answered the OP question, yet has begun demanding every one of his questions be answered immediately. I owe Mace no answers until he answers this one. Should Girls in Afghanistan Schools be more newsworthy as an ISAF success story? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/73 "2013-12-29T01:01:06Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > John Mace has not answered the OP question, yet has begun demanding every one of his questions be answered immediately. Factually incorrect: > [@John Mace](#): > > Take all the time you need. It’s up to you to defend your thesis. If you can’t do it, that’s fine. Lots of people propose theses here and are unable to defend them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/74 "2013-12-29T01:02:54Z")
I also need John Mace to explain which John Mace I am responding to since parts of my responses involve the fact that the US military is not leaving Afghanistan. One John Mace says we are leaving the other John Mace says we are not leaving. I need to know which John Mace I am responding to. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/75 "2013-12-29T01:06:19Z")
Dance all you want. Your thesis is unproven. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/76 "2013-12-29T01:08:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Factually incorrect: > > . Give us the cite or post # where you think you answered that specific question. And I was writing my post before you responded to take all the time I needed. Thanks for that, I will. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/77 "2013-12-29T01:13:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Dance all you want. Your thesis is unproven. Should Girls in Afghanistan Schools be more newsworthy as an ISAF success story? …As an ISAF success story? … As an ISAF success story? …As an ISAF success story? Perhais you did not catch the last five words in the question? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/78 "2013-12-29T01:18:57Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Give us the cite or post # where you think you answered that specific question. And I was writing my post before you responded to take all the time I needed. I told you in post #64 that you have not provided enough information to answer the question. You’re asking if there has been enough news reporting about a given fact, but you’ve not told us how much news reporting there has been. No one can answer if “more” of something is needed without knowing how much of that something already exists. However, I can testify that I knew many more girls were in school now, so from my own personal perspective, there has been enough reporting of it so far. Now as to the silly matter of whether “we are leaving” or not, it all depends on the context. We are not leaving this year or the next (assuming that Obama can negotiate for them to stay), but we are leaving in the not-distant future-- even Obama says so: > [@](#): > > [WH: No decision on troops in Afghanistan after 2014](http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/11/21/obama-afghanistan-troops-josh-earnest/3666445/) > If U.S. troops remain after 2014, their mission would be narrow and short-term, [WH Spokesman] Earnest said. > > “It involves counter-terrorism and training is something that we anticipate would not require a 10 year presence of troops,” Earnest said. “It wouldn’t take that long.” ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/79 "2013-12-29T01:54:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No one can answer if “more” of something is needed without knowing how much of that something already exists. What makes you think you can dictate your silly rules and perceptions into this discussion? The question is addressed to posters who are capable of having their own sense of how much positive news coverage already exists. Do you have a concept in you mind of how much positive news coverage already exists? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070/80 "2013-12-29T02:01:14Z")
No one can answer if “more” of something is needed without knowing how much of that something already exists. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Looks like 1a is underway in Afghanistan in a big way and should be applauded to the rafters. Novelty Bobble says it should be ‘applauded to the rafters’… and I would love to hear more people express that sentiment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-girls-in-afghanistan-schools-be-more-newsworthy-as-an-isaf-success-story/677070.md?page=5)