You said in context that we are leaving before 2016 with your reference to Obama and a re-surge. Obama is not expected to serve I third and fourth term that I know of.
Now you want us to set the time frame for leaving as something short of ten years from now.
*“It involves counter-terrorism and training is something that we anticipate would not require a 10 year presence of troops,” Earnest said. “It wouldn’t take that long.” *
You should know darn well that Earnest cannot assert what will be the case for troops remaining in Afghanistan in nine or ten years.
No need to get angry because you haven’t proven your thesis. Earnest said what he said-- that’s all I know. I wouldn’t presume that he said something he didn’t mean.
Any way, we’ll wait until you are able to prove you thesis. Take your time. No one really cares how long it remains unproven.
I’m not angry at all since you cannot explain your multiple positions on how long US troops will be in Afghanistan. You wrote this, “We’re leaving, and whatever happens in the future happens. If it turns out that school attendance again plummets, don’t expect Obama to request a troop re-surge to reverse that trend.” DON"T EXPECT OBAMA is a fixed time. Sorry.
And what is this ‘prove thesis’ silliness? What ‘thesis’ are you demanding be proven?
Should Girls in Afghanistan Schools be more newsworthy as an ISAF success story?
How did the above question for discussion turn into a ‘thesis’ requiring PROOF?
the·sis (thss)
n. pl. the·ses (-sz)
A proposition that is maintained by argument.
A dissertation advancing an original point of view as a result of research, especially as a requirement for an academic degree.
A hypothetical proposition, especially one put forth without proof.
The first stage of the Hegelian dialectic process.
What thesis. You brought up thesis, not me. You need to prove that I put forward a thesis before demanding I prove a thesis. And I did not put forth a hypothetical proposition, especially one put forth without proof or whatever you think a thesis is.
Did you read the very first definition you quoted? You put forth a proposition, but you didn’t “maintain it by an argument”. If you just wanted an opinion poll, you should have posted in IMHO. That’s where opinion polls go. Is that what you were looking for? If so, we can ask a mod to move this thread there. No harm in that. Happens all the time.
Should Girls in Afghanistan Schools be more newsworthy as an ISAF success story?
I’m interested in finding out and discussing if any readers think the statistics about girls in school and other positive outcomes should be provided by major news outlets more than is currently being provided merely as a suggestion for something to be considered by anyone interested on this forum and interested in a war being fought for over a decade.
Asking for proof for a suggested topic of discussion is a hijack attempt and cannot be taken seriously.
I’ve gotten some informative responses, I’d like to see more that are direct responses to the OP and whether the gains established at this time merit more news coverage.
I’d be glad to discuss whether ten years from now all the
gains will be list here but that is a different topic which cannot be proven but by the passage of time.
Those requesting proof on future events are being quite silly and I hope serious replies are not driven away by such silliness,
I have not had to argue that girls have made gains because all respondents thus far have agreed with the fact that girls have made gains. No one has argued that those gains are not in any way not to be perceived as an ISAF success. Most are arguing that the gains won’t last. Martin Hyde has presented a summary that I agree with fully. What do you expect me to argue now that your previous requests for proof have been shot down for being silly.
Nope. This is Great Debates. There is nothing “silly” about asking the OP to back up his thesis-- yours is that you posit that there should be more news coverage of the increase in girls attending school. But it seems that no one else is really interested in this thread anymore, so I’ll bow and and check back once in awhile to see if you ever do offer any proof.
Perhaps you are right … it may not be just ‘silly’ since the FACT is that John Mace is unable to reply to the full question and use a specific critical word in the question that has been asked. This again is the full and exact question.
Should Girls in Afghanistan Schools be more newsworthy*** as an ISAF success story***?
His more than a dozen posts and thank god if this truly is his final one on this thread, have all cut off the critical last five words of my question - *“as an ISAF success story”. * And by ignoring my full question John Mace declares that I have posited that *“there should be more news coverage of the increase in girls attending school” *
Also note that I used the word ‘newsworthy’ in the OP where Mace has revised it to ‘news coverage’ in his silly argument about the need for proof.
Even so that I did not use the noun ‘coverage’ I do not believe that I must ‘prove’ that there should be more news coverage to be able to ask readers if they think there should be more news coverage of something because that is very silly in the first place.
But it is even more silly to be required to ‘prove’ the full language of my question. That must be why Mace left five words off in his silly replies and changed my wording from newsworthy to news coverage. So I will at least correct his silly scold of the OP question that has been asked:
There is nothing “silly” about asking the OP to back up his thesis that it should be more newsworthy of the increase in girls attending school as an ISAF success story.
You see when the full question is cited correctly there is no purpose or coherence to Mace’s silly erroneous demands to prove how much news coverage exists already on girls attending school; it is a matter of seeking posters views on the worthiness of news as an ISAF success story right now at this point in time. One aspect of worthiness that I have mentioned is how it affects the troops who have served in that war and whether their effort can be seen as a success right now whether or not the gains will last or fade away with the passage of time.
Also I wonder…
Did Mace posit a thesis on Great Debates that there was no Iraq war by asking ‘What Iraq War’ in the title of a thread he started?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9109409&postcount=1
Did Mace ask himself to ‘prove’ that news coverage of the War in Iraq * “seemed much lower than it had been”* in order to ask fellow posters if they thought news coverage had suddenly become less at that point in time? I didn’t see Mace ridicule and complain or demand PROOF of his POSIT that news coverage seemed lower at that time to have a discussion about it. And no one was so silly to respond to Mace’s OP in that way. They had a discussion… .about it on “GREAT DEBATES” … imagine that. No silly diversion.
Since this should be the last post on Mace’s detour I’ll point out the difference in the word ‘newsworthy’ and the phrase ‘news coverage’.
news·wor·thy adjective of sufficient interest to the public or a special audience to warrant press attention or coverage
*cov·er·age [kuhv-er-ij, kuhv-rij] ** noun **Journalism. the reporting and subsequent publishing or broadcasting of news - the extent to which something is covered. *
So Mace has demanded that I PROVE an adjective used in a question I asked by changing my adjective to a noun.
I’ll repeat these questions (a) because they have been ignored, and (b) because in a society like Afhganistan the bare statement of increased school attendance means nothing without qualitative assessment:
Did Mace posit a thesis on Great Debates that there was no Iraq war by asking ‘What Iraq War’ in the title of a thread he started?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...09&postcount=1
Did Mace ask himself to ‘prove’ that news coverage of the War in Iraq “seemed much lower than it had been” in order to ask fellow posters if they thought news coverage had suddenly become less at that point in time? I didn’t see Mace ridicule and complain or demand PROOF of his POSIT that news coverage seemed lower at that time to have a discussion about it. And no one was so silly to respond to Mace’s OP in that way. They had a discussion… .about it on “GREAT DEBATES” … imagine that. No silly diversion.
You say it means nothing going from no girls in Afghanistan in 2000 getting such a thing as a poor qualitative assessed education that increases literacy to 4 million at present getting a poor qualitative assessed education that increases literacy so with such weak reasoning skills that you are demonstrating it would be weak reasoning to reward such bogus thinking with an answer about the quality of the education being delivered.
You are in essence saying that 4 million girls becoming literate that had no chance to become literate under the Taliban regime means nothing aren’t you because you are not satisfied with the quality of the means they have to becoming literate?
Try to explain your barely coherent generalization that girls learning to read and write means nothing.
I would like to point out that I have heard Malala speak on camera after having survived a bullet to the head and after being educated in confrontation with Taliban oppression of girls and women in that violent and troubled same part of the world and our war - and she is more articulate in English than the average Tea Party member pulled from a rally and put on camera.
I am curious as to why has not thus far explained why he did this:
Also note that I used the word ‘newsworthy’ in the OP where Mace has revised it to ‘news coverage’ in his silly argument about the need for proof.
They’re learning to read and write? How do you know what they’re doing?
again: what is the quality of the teaching, who is assessing reading and writing skills - you are surely not projecting a version of ‘education’ based on your own experience, that would obviously be hopelessly naive and silly?
A lot of emotionally-invested money and political grandstanding invested in purporting to educate Afghani children, not seeing any independent measurements.
I did consider it. I also considered that people writing such reports have a duty to check their facts and report accurately. If it contains statements from people, especially statements made in other languages, it’s up to them to ensure it’s translated well. It would also be wise for them to avoid using unlikely claims to back up the message they want to get across. Propaganda isn’t much use if it’s hard to believe.
NotfooledbyW, with respect, I get the impression that what you’re really after is an ISAF/Afghan back-patting thread. Your original question is not going to get much discussion, as it stands. The most we can do is a poll where we all vote whether we want more, less or the same amount of coverage, then argue about why we want more or less of it. That (and perhaps it’s my own imagination that’s lacking here) doesn’t sound like a very interesting debate; more like a series of opinions being shouted back and forth.
Again, I’m just speculating here, but it sounds like this thread is motivated by your belief that people in general have an unfairly negative perception of ISAF’s achievements and an unreasonably pessimistic prognosis for Afghanistan’s future. A debate on that wider topic might be more fruitful, although I suspect you will still be asked to quantify the public’s perceptions of ISAF and Afghanistan.