# Should GM (Genetically Modified) Foods be Abolished? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639 "2012-10-23T17:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/41 "2012-10-25T11:40:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The argument that early man cultivated cereals, cauliflower, etc., therefore GM is good doesn’t pass the sniff test. One might as well claim that if a glass of wine is good, then we should all drink a barrel of whiskey. I don’t think we’re saying “GM is good”- just that GM is not new. Only GM _in the laboratory_ is new. Some GM is probably not good- just like some sorts of selective breeding can lead to problems (like the health problems in many dog breeds). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/42 "2012-10-25T16:40:10Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Cooking food is pretty unnatural, too. Mankind’s been eating the raw stuff for most of our time on the planet. > > Of course mankind used to die a lot younger, often due at least in part to poor nutrition. > > Nature really wants us dead. Actually, not exactly true. When we were primarily hunter gatherers our nutrition was pretty good. When we started agriculture our size and lifespan took a nosedive, since we went from a variety of food to a small number of not very good plants. (This was before we genetically modified them to be more nutritious.) So becoming mostly vegetarian was bad for us in the short run at least. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/43 "2012-10-25T23:01:26Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > In my opinion, yes because it’s not natural. We do not eat GM foods (we actually don’t, we go to whole foods), and we’re healthy. Shouldn’t we let the food stay the way it is. It can have negative impacts on the environment as well. Well, that’s my argument. What do you guys think? GM foods should not be abolished but they should be labeled. Let the consumer (you know, the individual purchasing the product) make the choice. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/44 "2012-10-25T23:51:25Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > GM foods should not be abolished but they should be labeled. Let the consumer (you know, the individual purchasing the product) make the choice. > > - Honesty Why should they be labeled? We don’t label foods with the type and concentration of pesticide used (which would be more relevant, but still unnecessary, information). ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/45 "2012-10-26T01:08:25Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > GM foods should not be abolished but they should be labeled. Let the consumer (you know, the individual purchasing the product) make the choice. Out of all the factors that a consumer may want to know in order to make a decision, which of them do you think the law should require labels for? Which pesticides were used? How long since it was picked/harvested? Whether the field workers were unionized? The immigration status of the workers? How long since the crops on that land were rotated? Maybe if we required labels for all the things that consumers might want to know about, you’d get a hefty data sheet for every piece of produce you bought. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/46 "2012-10-26T01:14:09Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > GM foods should not be abolished but they should be labeled. Let the consumer (you know, the individual purchasing the product) make the choice. > > - Honesty > [@markdash](#): > > Why should they be labeled? We don’t label foods with the type and concentration of pesticide used (which would be more relevant, but still unnecessary, information). Yeah, it would be much easier for **non** -GM foods to be labeled, just like organic foods are labeled. We don’t require producers of non-organic foods to label their products as such. If the producers and consumers of non-GM foods care about it enough, they can set up non-GM certifications and label their foods however they wish. The fact is, the vast majority of foods contain at least some trace-level GM ingredients. It makes a lot more sense for the minority (non-GM/organic) foods to be labeled to indicate what the producers and consumers of those foods consider to be important. Trying to impose labeling on the majority of foods, indicating something that the majority of people don’t care about, is little more than a publicity stunt for a movement that’s rooted in ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/47 "2012-10-26T01:29:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Actually, not exactly true. When we were primarily hunter gatherers our nutrition was pretty good. When we started agriculture our size and lifespan took a nosedive, since we went from a variety of food to a small number of not very good plants. (This was before we genetically modified them to be more nutritious.) So becoming mostly vegetarian was bad for us in the short run at least. You may very well be right, but you got a cite for that? I’ve never heard that assertion before. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/48 "2012-10-26T01:31:02Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > GM foods should not be abolished but they should be labeled. And what gets labeled as “GM food”? Plenty - probably most by now - crops shaped by selective breeding include variations that were created by exposing their ancestors to mutagens (radiation, chemicals, etc) and keeping the useful mutants. That’s just as much “genetic modification” as genetic engineering is; it’s just random. And as pointed out, selective breeding itself is a form of genetic modification. Whose definition of “GM food” gets used? Besides; last I heard, most of these “anti-GM” food campaigns are pushed by food companies to drive out their rivals, especially foreign ones. You just end up exchanging one batch of “GM food” for another. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/49 "2012-10-26T01:35:39Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > GM foods should not be abolished but they should be labeled. Let the consumer (you know, the individual purchasing the product) make the choice. Right. As soon as you develop a test that can tell the difference, we can run every product through and label it accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/50 "2012-10-26T01:42:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Actually, not exactly true. When we were primarily hunter gatherers our nutrition was pretty good. When we started agriculture our size and lifespan took a nosedive, since we went from a variety of food to a small number of not very good plants. (This was before we genetically modified them to be more nutritious.) So becoming mostly vegetarian was bad for us in the short run at least. That’s a hypothesis, and some local evidence supports that, but a lot of other evidence is either inconclusive or indicates a fair amount of premature death among hunter-gatherers, too. Hunter-gatherer lifestyle is no protection against parasites and a fair number of other pathogens, and nutritional deficiencies, while perhaps more episodic, can still be as devastating. Mother nature really doesn’t care how healthy we are once we’ve successfully reproduced. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/51 "2012-10-26T06:55:34Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > The strongest argument against GM plants and animals is that they are the underpinning to an exploding population. > And, (AGW enthusiasts to the contrary), an exploding population is overwhelmingly our worst environmental nightmare. > > If we’re just worried about keeping Gaia as “naturally” self-regulating as possible, we need to get rid of GM foods, let a bunch of people croak from starvation, and get back to basics… Yes. And indeed, early cultivation did start us down the “slippery slope” as **Voyager** points out. (And many endemic diseases arise from our proximity to similarly-overpopulated domesticated animals.) I’m amazed that most people ignore that high population is at the root of so many of today’s problems. The attitude seems to be “people screamed about it in the 1960’s but the earth didn’t implode, therefore they were just hysterical.” Of course, as **Chief Pedant** implies, no acceptable plan has been proposed for rapid population reduction. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/52 "2012-10-26T07:21:40Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You may very well be right, but you got a cite for that? I’ve never heard that assertion before. [Here is one I found.](http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Health_of_farmers_and_hunter-gatherers/) I read it in _Guns, Germs and Steel_ as confirmed by this link, And I was surprised by this also. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/53 "2012-10-26T07:23:16Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > That’s a hypothesis, and some local evidence supports that, but a lot of other evidence is either inconclusive or indicates a fair amount of premature death among hunter-gatherers, too. Hunter-gatherer lifestyle is no protection against parasites and a fair number of other pathogens, and nutritional deficiencies, while perhaps more episodic, can still be as devastating. > > Mother nature really doesn’t care how healthy we are once we’ve successfully reproduced. I tried to make it clear that I was not claiming hunter gatherers lived to 100 with no disease. Of course not. Things just got worse when we moved to agriculture. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/54 "2012-10-26T07:25:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m amazed that most people ignore that high population is at the root of so many of today’s problems. The attitude seems to be “people screamed about it in the 1960’s but the earth didn’t implode, therefore they were just hysterical.” But is the best way of reducing population starvation, or is it plenty of food? Compare Europe to Africa. People who fear starvation seem to have more kids to help support them, and that just makes things worse. People who have plenty to eat have fewer kids. The world is better fed than was expected 40 years ago, and our population situation is also a bit more hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/55 "2012-10-26T08:42:45Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > In my opinion, yes because it’s not natural. We do not eat GM foods (we actually don’t, we go to whole foods), and we’re healthy. Shouldn’t we let the food stay the way it is. It can have negative impacts on the environment as well. Well, that’s my argument. What do you guys think? It sounds as informed and nuanced as a christian fundamentalist talking about homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/56 "2012-10-26T08:56:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But is the best way of reducing population starvation, or is it plenty of food? That’s part of it. It seems to be the combination of women’s rights, general prosperity and birth control. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/57 "2012-10-26T09:46:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But is the best way of reducing population starvation, or is it plenty of food? … I did not suggest that GM should be banned in order to _cause_ population reduction. :smack: Rather I consider the need for GM to be one of many unfortunate _effects_ of overpopulation. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/58 "2012-10-26T14:16:40Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Why should they be labeled? Uh, because I’m the consumer and I’d like to know if the seed which my food was grown has been genetically modified. It’s a personal decision and labeling should be forthright. Maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to eat corn whose seed has been transformed using a viral vector containing both [prokaryotic and eukaryotic genes](http://cera-gmc.org/docs/decdocs/bnfM033.pdf). I know, I know - the peanut gallery will retort that we’ve been transforming our agriculture using viral vectors since antiquity :rolleyes:. What the peanut gallery doesn’t understand (and will never comprehend) is inserting genes from other species into plants does not equate to selective breeding; unfortunately, for them, there’s no difference between Gregor Mendel and Craig Venter nor between selective breeding and _in vitro_ genetic modifcation. I should ask you: why do you want to stuff genetically modified food down my throat? Shouldn’t I, as the consumer (the person shelling money for the product) get an opportunity to NOT purchase genetically modified food via clear and concise labeling? - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/59 "2012-10-26T14:41:26Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to eat corn whose seed has been transformed using a viral vector containing both [prokaryotic and eukaryotic genes](http://cera-gmc.org/docs/decdocs/bnfM033.pdf). Why does this matter? I’m generally supportive of the labeling idea even though I think it’s pure hysteria, but I agree that if it happens it’s just going to empower people to make irrational decisions based on nonsense, poor science, and made-up industry terms of art like “natural flavors.” ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/60 "2012-10-26T15:58:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > [Here is one I found.](http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Health_of_farmers_and_hunter-gatherers/) I read it in _Guns, Germs and Steel_ as confirmed by this link, And I was surprised by this also. Very interesting, thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639.md?page=4)