# Should GM (Genetically Modified) Foods be Abolished? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639 "2012-10-23T17:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/61 "2012-10-26T18:53:30Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to eat corn whose seed has been transformed using a viral vector containing both [prokaryotic and eukaryotic genes](http://cera-gmc.org/docs/decdocs/bnfM033.pdf). If the food is determined to be safe, using actual science and peer-reviewed studies, I do not care if the seed has been extruded from satan’s asshole itself. Plenty of chemical processes follow the pattern “poison + poison = perfectly safe thing.” You can cry hysteria about how the GM food is being made, but if it’s safe, why does it matter? > [@](#): > > I should ask you: why do you want to stuff genetically modified food down my throat? Shouldn’t I, as the consumer (the person shelling money for the product) get an opportunity to NOT purchase genetically modified food via clear and concise labeling? Believe me, I don’t want to shove _anything_ down your throat. What I want is for people to stop being hysterical about GMO and only GMO. All kinds of foods are bathed in hormones/pesticides and for some reason GMO is the bogeyman? In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice to have detailed labeling about all foods and the methods used to prepare them. Unfortunately, we live in this world, where doing such things attaches a non-trivial cost to production, not to mention that the current state of scientific literacy means such labels will drive people away from high-yield GMO crops when those are the best way to feed a burgeoning population. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/62 "2012-10-26T20:10:18Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > What the peanut gallery doesn’t understand (and will never comprehend) is inserting genes from other species into plants does not equate to selective breeding; unfortunately, for them, there’s no difference between Gregor Mendel and Craig Venter… Sure there is - Venter can get the job done much more quickly and precisely. > [@](#): > > Shouldn’t I, as the consumer (the person shelling money for the product) get an opportunity to NOT purchase genetically modified food via clear and concise labeling? You, as the consumer, have the right to purchase whatever you can afford. If you’d like to buy only food that has been modified using only old-fashioned techniques, and not with more modern ones, then you can buy your food from producers who will sell this to you. Just like if someone else wants to buy his produce only from growers who use union labor, he can do that. Just don’t ask the rest of us to pay for your irrational (to us) hangups about what you eat. ---
**Author:** ![JellyBeanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@JellyBeanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JellyBeanz)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/63 "2012-10-26T20:27:50Z")
Now this is an issue that tears me apart, on one hand I don’t think we should be messing with the genetics of plants or even killing plants for our own consumption because every organism deserves the right to life. But on the other hand I think how GM crops could help starving people in poor nations but I can’t decide which is the lesser evil. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/64 "2012-10-26T21:56:52Z")
> [@JellyBeanz](#): > > I can’t decide which is the lesser evil. Which would you rather have die? Human babies or soybeans? It’s really that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/65 "2012-10-26T21:57:39Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Which would you rather have die? Human babies or soybeans? > > It’s really that simple. Mmmmm… babies in Soy Sauce… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/66 "2012-10-26T22:02:23Z")
> [@JellyBeanz](#): > > Now this is an issue that tears me apart, on one hand I don’t think we should be messing with the genetics of plants or even killing plants for our own consumption **because every organism deserves the right to life**. But on the other hand I think how GM crops could help starving people in poor nations but I can’t decide which is the lesser evil. Such bullshit. \* **Will Munny** : Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it. \* ---
**Author:** ![JellyBeanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@JellyBeanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JellyBeanz)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/67 "2012-10-26T22:18:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Such bullshit. > \* > **Will Munny** : Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it. \* Oh’ please, if you disagree with me at least actually state why… ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/68 "2012-10-26T22:20:50Z")
Please stop hijacking this thread. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/69 "2012-10-26T22:21:38Z")
> [@JellyBeanz](#): > > Oh’ please, if you disagree with me at least actually state why… He did tell you. Deserve has nothing to do with anything. No organism deserves to live…nature doesn’t work that way. Sheesh. Your arguments are childish and at their base hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/70 "2012-10-26T22:21:45Z")
No, because there are few natural foods available in supermarkets. None of the meat or produce is natural, none of the bread or cereals, none of the dairy. It is all the product of genetic modification; the techniques have changed, but they are all genetically modified. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/71 "2012-10-27T02:59:16Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I know, I know - the peanut gallery will retort that we’ve been transforming our agriculture using viral vectors since antiquity :rolleyes:. What the peanut gallery doesn’t understand (and will never comprehend) is inserting genes from other species into plants does not equate to selective breeding; unfortunately, for them, there’s no difference between Gregor Mendel and Craig Venter nor between selective breeding and _in vitro_ genetic modifcation. Except for the modern version being more controlled, there isn’t; selective breeding works on virus introduced genes as well as on any other kind. And there are plenty of virus introduced genes; IIRC something like 2% of our own human genome is from viral transfer from other species. > [@Honesty](#): > > I should ask you: why do you want to stuff genetically modified food down my throat? Shouldn’t I, as the consumer (the person shelling money for the product) get an opportunity to NOT purchase genetically modified food via clear and concise labeling? “Clear and concise” labeling would be a lie, since the clear dichotomy you are looking for doesn’t exist. What you want is a label using a politically crafted category designed by luddites to scare people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/72 "2012-10-27T05:37:28Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Please stop hijacking this thread. Seconded. **JellyBeanz** , you’re already discussing your ethical views on eating meat and plants in another thread. If you are going to post in this thread, confine your comments to GM foods and not vegetarianism or cruelty to life forms. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/73 "2012-10-27T05:56:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What, do you think plants like cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, kale and Brussels sprouts evolved naturally? :dubious: Do you think they were grown in a lab after having alien genes injected into them? I’m going to say that GMO food should be far more restricted than it is now, with each new strain subject to environmental impact review and the possibility of a ban. Also, it should be impossible to claim any gene as intellectual property, thus diminishing the profit motive in this field. The health of the biosphere must not be compromised for “shareholder value.” If these restrictions are too hard for governments to manage, then just ban them outright, worldwide. Better safe than stupid. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/74 "2012-10-27T09:03:04Z")
Abolished? No. Heavy regulated, researched, and labeled, of course. Pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/75 "2012-10-27T09:48:27Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > :dubious: Do you think they were grown in a lab after having alien genes injected into them? No. “Grown in a lab after having ‘alien genes’ induced in them by mutagenic chemicals or radiation” on the other hand is quite likely. I don’t see any reason to think that there’s some kind of superiority of random genetic alterations caused by a lump of radioisotope over controlled genetic alterations done with more modern techniques. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/76 "2012-10-27T15:31:37Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I’m going to say that GMO food should be far more restricted than it is now, with each new strain subject to environmental impact review and the possibility of a ban. Would this law also apply to every new variety of crop, regardless of how it came to be? The point is that there’s nothing significantly different about crops modified by gene-splicing and crops modified through more traditional methods. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/77 "2012-10-27T18:29:36Z")
Much of the fear of GM is not about the safety of the resultant food itself, but associated ecological dangers. But even the safety of the food is not necessarily as certain as some Dopers imply. > [@](#): > > The point is that there’s nothing significantly different about crops modified by gene-splicing and crops modified through more traditional methods. Dopers in this thread keep making claims like this, or implying that GM is certainly safe, but where’s the evidence? Dopers make analogies with pre-GM cultivation, but such cultivation already has known dangers, and the potential danger of GM is much worse. (See my analogy above: “Even if a glass of wine is good for you, does it follow that a keg of whiskey is good too?”) Dopers claim those worried about GM are “anti-science” but any scientist who tells you he is certain GM has no dangers is blowing smoke. Here are three articles based on scientific work: [http://www.wanttoknow.info/gmoinyourfood](http://www.wanttoknow.info/gmoinyourfood) [http://earthopensource.org/index.php/news/60-why-genetically-engineered-food-is-dangerous-new-report-by-genetic-engineers](http://earthopensource.org/index.php/news/60-why-genetically-engineered-food-is-dangerous-new-report-by-genetic-engineers) > **[A Potential Danger of Genetic Modification](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/01/the-very-real-danger-of-genetically-modified-foods/251051/)** > > New research shows that when we eat we're consuming more than just vitamins and protein. Our bodies are also absorbing information. (I don’t know that any of that science is “good” but none of you can guarantee it’s all “bad.” Pro-GM people are operating on faith, not science.) Anyone who is literate is aware that there have recently been many major ecological disruptions caused by new animal diseases, transporting pests, etc. It is only common-sense to fear that GM risks magnifying such disruptions. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/78 "2012-10-27T21:39:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Much of the fear of GM is not about the safety of the resultant food itself, but associated ecological dangers. But that has nothing to do one way or the other with “GM food” food labels. _Actual_ danger of any kind has nothing to do with it. > [@septimus](#): > > Dopers make analogies with pre-GM cultivation, but such cultivation already has known dangers, and the potential danger of GM is much worse. Or less, because at least they aren’t releasing random changes. And again; that has nothing to do with labeling some as a “GM food”. > [@septimus](#): > > (I don’t know that any of that science is “good” but none of you can guarantee it’s all “bad.” Pro-GM people are operating on faith, not science.) No; we’re operating on the principle of “show us an actual danger, not a theoretical one”". If we forbid things based on theoretical dangers, then _everything_ is forbidden because _nothing_ is perfectly safe. And again; unless the alterations put something dangerous in the food, then a “GM food” label is simply besides the point. A “GM Food” label is simply Luddite scaremongering. A proper warning label is something along the lines of “contains X substance”. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/79 "2012-10-27T21:46:30Z")
Considering that one of the chief uses of gene-splicing is to make grasses–wind-pollinated plants–produce a toxin poisonous to insect larvae, the idea that it presents no new danger is absurd. The ecological damage potential is enormous. Seriously, I’m no fan of the massive pesticide use Bt corn is trying to replace, but this is a big deal, and acting like all such tech must be considered normal and harmless is purblind. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639/80 "2012-10-27T21:48:54Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Considering that one of the chief uses of gene-splicing is to make grasses–wind-pollinated plants–produce a toxin poisonous to insect larvae, the idea that it presents no new danger is absurd. But again, that has nothing to do with a label on food. Nor is that new; plenty of “organic” foods produce their own pesticides. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gm-genetically-modified-foods-be-abolished/638639.md?page=5)