# Should Gov. Corzine be Jailed for Ignoring laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2007, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438 "2007-04-24T11:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/21 "2007-04-24T15:24:27Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I have a big problem with Corzine’s behavior-and I think he should be given extra punishment (beyond what an average person should). [/QUOTE] What country do you live in? In America, everyone is equal under the law. > [@](#): > > I’d say-as soon as he recovers, slap him with a $25,000 fine, and 25 days in the clink! There is not a court in the land with the power to do that. Unless you declare him an enemy combatant. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/22 "2007-04-24T15:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] There’s no legal mechanism, I’m pretty sure, for throwing a guy in jail on what would ordinarily be a $20 ticket. **ralph214c** , how many people do you expect to say “the Governor didn’t wear a seatbelt, so I won’t either?” [/QUOTE] I’ll have you know that 60 year old Jon Corzine is almost like a rock star to HS students in NJ, dude. What he does, they do. I drove past the HS the other day and almost all the kids are wearing gray beards and wool blazers. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/23 "2007-04-24T15:36:35Z")
As already noted, even the governor’s chief of staff supports a citation for his failure to wear a belt. However, [QUOTE=ralph124c] he had (illegally) ordered his state police driver to exceed the speed limit [/QUOTE] I am not sure that this is a true statement at either point. Superintendent Col. Joseph “Rick” Fuentes of the New Jersey state police [has indicated](http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/story/7413418p-7308562c.html) that their procedures are intended to ensure that no other vehicle can run alongside that of the governor so as to reduce the chance that a person in another vehicle could target the governor for assassination or harrassment. > [@](#): > > During the afternoon teleconference, Fuentes said troopers are asked to obey traffic and speed laws during non-emergency situations, but he said there are other reasons to go above the speed limit. State troopers assigned to the governor’s motorcade are trained not to stop in traffic and to move through traffic for security reasons. > > “Speed is always a contributing factor in any accident,” Fuentes said. “But we need to put speed in the context of whether there was a reason to be going that fast at the time. … We see the environment around the governor as having some inherent risks.” > > Jones, of the State Trooper Fraternal Association, questioned whether the black box was a reliable indicator of speed, but he said Rasinski’s job is to keep other cars from driving alongside the governor. This may or may not be a good choice and the specific speed is probably open to challenge, but barring further eveidence, we do not know that the governor played any role in the choice of speeds and we do not know that the state of New Jersey considers that speed to be excessive for the conditions and we do not know whether the state of New Jersey considers the safe-from-attack transportation of the governor to fall into the realm of an emergency or not an emergency. It is possible that the legislature could clarify the law for the police, but it is not a sure thing, at this point, that existing law has been broken. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/24 "2007-04-24T16:04:49Z")
Nitpick: I’ve heard and read that it is a $46.00 fine. For all we know, the extra $26.00 may mean his kids have to go to public school next year. [Cite](http://www.trentonian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18210360&BRD=1697&PAG=461&dept_id=44551&rfi=6) > [@The Trentonian](#): > > Corzine was sitting, as was his habit, in the front passenger seat, but apparently was not wearing a seat belt, said Tom Shea, his chief of staff. > > State law requires all front-seat occupants to wear seat belts. But Shea said that the governor was "not always amenable to suggestion,’’ adding that Corzine usually wore his seat belt and had been doing so earlier in the day on Thursday. > > State law requires all front-seat occupants to wear seat belts, said David Wald, a spokesman for the state attorney general’s office. Violators face a $46 fine, he said. > > "If he was not, he certainly should have been,’’ Shea said, "and we would encourage the state police to issue a citation.’’ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/25 "2007-04-24T16:27:49Z")
Ralph, I’m shocked at how badly you have misunderstood Jon Corzine. There’s no man on Earth who cares more about traffic safety - in fact, that’s really what this is all about. Jon Corzine cares. He cares a lot. Other politicians are content just mouthing empty platitudes and being easily ignored role models, but that wasn’t enough for Jon. He wanted to make a real difference. He realized that if he was going to change people’s driving habits, he’d have to give them a graphic warning of the consequences. And Jon Corzine wouldn’t ask another man to make the sacrifice for him. So Jon set out every day, intentionally courting death by not wearing his seatbelt and encouraging his drivers to exceed the speed limit. He knew it was only a matter of time and some say he appreciated life more fully by knowing he was living on borrowed time. We can only hope that’s true. Because on April 12, Jon’s plan came to its climax. As his body was hurled through the windshield, they say he was smiling, knowing that the sight of his bloody body would do more for traffic safety than a thousand public service announcement on late night TV. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/26 "2007-04-24T17:31:09Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I have a big problem with Corzine’s behavior-and I think he should be given extra punishment (beyond what an average person should). To begin with, he is the GOVERNOR-he should set an example of adherence to the laws (that he helped pass). Ordering a law enforcement officer top BREAK THE LAW is a very bad example to set. The fact that the state trooper chose to obey an illegal order is no defence-he should lose his job over this. Corzine destroyed state property (through willfull negligence). he should pay (out of his own pocket), for the damage to the state vehicle, for the damage to the guardrail, and for the EMT’s rescue bill. I’m sick and tired of politicians lecturing us on how to live our lives..then they go out and make a great big mess (which we collectively must pay to put right). I’d say-as soon as he recovers, slap him with a $25,000 fine, and 25 days in the clink! [/QUOTE] Does anyone even read my posts? ::tap, tap:: Is this thing on? The state troopers driving the governor have the discretion to use emergency lights and speed at will. REPEATING, _the state troopers driving the governor have the discretion to use emergency lights and speed at will._ Therefore, the state trooper driving Corzine WASN’T BREAKING THE LAW. You can argue that he was showing poor judgment as a law enforcement officer by exceeding the speed limit in a non-emergency situation, but Corzine’s drivers were ALLOWED TO DO THAT. Where is your citation that Corzine ordered the state trooper to speed? You keep saying that and I see no corroboration from the state trooper or any article. Even if that’s true, would that all politicians had such immediate personal karma for considering themselves above the laws of the land. Good lord, imagine what sort of machines would be keeping the President alive at this point. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/27 "2007-04-24T17:40:40Z")
Yes, I am quite sure that speeding (to attend a meeting with fired talk show host Don Imus and the Rutger’s Womens Basketball team) constituted a state emergency; it is vital that politicians get to meet with public figures like Imus. But what kind of IDIOT drives an SUV at 91 MPH? They aren’t even safe at 55 MPH-they are prone to rollovers and are top heavy, poorly handling vehicles under the best of circumstances. yeah, Corzine (and his driver) ought to be cited-for stupidity! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/28 "2007-04-24T17:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] yeah, Corzine (and his driver) ought to be cited-for stupidity! [/QUOTE] I have it on good authority that the law against stupidity in New Jersey was repealed in an attempt to reduce prison overcrowding. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/29 "2007-04-24T18:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] I have it on good authority that the law against stupidity in New Jersey was repealed in an attempt to reduce prison overcrowding. [/QUOTE] Untrue. It’s just that, in true Jersey style, it was so poorly written that it really ended up incarcerating smart Jerseyians, and thus was never invoked. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/30 "2007-04-24T18:09:03Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Untrue. It’s just that, in true Jersey style, it was so poorly written that it really ended up incarcerating smart Jerseyians … [/QUOTE] Both of them? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/31 "2007-04-24T18:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] But what kind of IDIOT drives an SUV at 91 MPH? They aren’t even safe at 55 MPH-they are prone to rollovers and are top heavy, poorly handling vehicles under the best of circumstances. [/QUOTE] This statement is way too broad a generalization. It might be true of Suburbans and Expeditions, (or it might not), but I am pretty sure it is a false claim for SUVs the size of Blazers and Grand Cherokees. So, before we agree to your unsupported assertion, just what sort of SUV was it? In addition, my reading about the events, so far, seem to indicate that traffic was fairly light. (I am open to correction–with evidence–on that point.) Given a stable vehicle and light traffic, 91 m.p.h. is certainly not a guarantee of a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/32 "2007-04-24T18:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ponder Stibbons] Both of them? [/QUOTE] ((looks to see where poster is from)) I really wouldn’t go there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/33 "2007-04-24T19:26:42Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Yes, I am quite sure that speeding (to attend a meeting with fired talk show host Don Imus and the Rutger’s Womens Basketball team) constituted a state emergency; it is vital that politicians get to meet with public figures like Imus. But what kind of IDIOT drives an SUV at 91 MPH? They aren’t even safe at 55 MPH-they are prone to rollovers and are top heavy, poorly handling vehicles under the best of circumstances. yeah, Corzine (and his driver) ought to be cited-for stupidity! [/QUOTE] Again, I refer you to my first post in this thread where I quoted: > [@](#): > > As a result of the accident, New Jersey State Police Superintendent Col. Joseph Fuentes said the governor’s drivers would be asked to obey all traffic laws in a nonemergency situation, which was the case when the crash took place. Corzine was running late for a meeting between the Rutgers women’s basketball team and Don Imus. > > However, Fuentes said the troopers have the discretion to use emergency lights and to speed as necessary. Stupidity isn’t against the law. A good thing, considering that this thread would be some great evidence. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/34 "2007-04-24T19:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=lisacurl] Stupidity isn’t against the law. A good thing, considering that this thread would be some great evidence. [/QUOTE] Actually, in **Great Debates** , direct personal insults **are** against the law, so I trust that we will not have to issue any citations on further posts. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/35 "2007-04-24T19:45:05Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Actually, in **Great Debates** , direct personal insults **are** against the law, so I trust that we will not have to issue any citations on further posts. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] Well, it was arguably indirect and not very personal, but understood. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/36 "2007-04-24T19:54:16Z")
At least no one will be going to jail for in-thread insults, however well-veiled… ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/37 "2007-04-24T20:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I have a big problem with Corzine’s behavior … To begin with, he is the GOVERNOR-he should set an example of adherence to the laws (that he helped pass). [/QUOTE] Wee nitpick: Jon Corzine was not Governor of New Jersey when the primary seat belt law was passed in [1999](http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/outreach/state_laws-belts04/safeylaws-states.htm). At that time, Corzine was still co-chairman of Goldman Sachs & Co., and was considering a bid for the [U.S. Senate](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/jon_s_corzine/index.html?offset=15&s=oldest&inline=nyt-per). Prior to that, he had “no political experience outside the student senate at the University of Illinois” ([cite](http://www.chicagogsb.edu/magazine/summer01/features/corzine2.html)). So he didn’t really help pass the seat belt law in NJ, I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/38 "2007-04-24T22:13:20Z")
[QUOTE=rockle] Jon Corzine was not Governor of New Jersey when the primary seat belt law was passed in 1999. … So he didn’t really help pass the seat belt law in NJ, I don’t think. [/QUOTE] Okay, but with his recent experiences, I will be watching to see whether he will spearhead an attempt to revoke that law. Or maybe he’ll choose to become a poster boy for enforcing it. Or maybe he’ll just be a typical politician and ignore the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/39 "2007-04-25T04:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Both of them? Eve Golden and Bruce Springsteen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438/40 "2007-04-25T04:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, but with his recent experiences, I will be watching to see whether he will spearhead an attempt to revoke that law. Or maybe he’ll choose to become a poster boy for enforcing it. Or maybe he’ll just be a typical politician and ignore the issue. The outcome is almost set in stone. What’s Corzine going to do? Come out as an advocate for dangerous driving? No, he’ll milk this like a cow. Expect a series of PSA’s where he talks about his own experience in this accident, acknowledges that he was acting recklessly (but not in a personally liable way), will say he was very lucky (maybe giving non-denominational thanks to God), and urge everyone to please drive safely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-gov-corzine-be-jailed-for-ignoring-laws/401438.md?page=3)