# Should Hawaii look for Ann Soetoro's delivery records? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637 "2010-12-28T19:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/1 "2010-12-28T19:54:28Z")
Apparently Governor Ambercrombie wants to lay the birthers to rest for good. From [here](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/12/hawaii-governor-wants-to-prove-obama-was-born-there/1): \*"For Abercrombie, it’s personal. The 72-year-old governor actually knew Obama’s parents, Barack Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham, when they were young university students in Hawaii. He told The New York Times that questioning where the president was born is ‘an insult to his mother and to his father.’ Abercrombie has told the Times’ Sheryl Gay Stolberg, CNN’s Ed Henry and others that he’s asked the state attorney general and health officials to determine what additional information he can release to prove that Obama was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961."\* The answer is easy: release Ann Dunham Soetoro’s delivery record. A birth certificate is the lowest “proof” of birth. It’s nothing more than a low-level clerk’s recording of whatever they were instructed to record. So the governor, (having been there when he was born, apparently), should ask the Hospital to release the records of Ann Soetoro’s confinement for delivery if he wants to help his buddy out with proof. It’s not possible to give birth in a Hospital without creating records–even in 1961–and it’s easy to uncover records from a given period of time. They are essentially never destroyed. At the time of Mr Obama’s birth, even simple things like a log of every patient and the reason for admission would have been recorded and kept. If the actual Hospital is in question, it’s a simple matter to review all logs from the putative time frame. There’s no “privacy issue” if you are just helping someone prove what they are already claiming. Good idea, because it settles the issue? Bad idea, because the birthers will move on to complain about President Obama’s cigarette habit, or something? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/2 "2010-12-28T19:58:58Z")
Bad idea because the issue has long since been settled to anyone with common sense, and any further time and resources spent on it are wasted. Nothing will satisfy these idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/3 "2010-12-28T20:03:48Z")
The _only_ thing that could possibly shut the “Birthers” up would be to laugh directly into their faces and tell them to shut the hell up. Anything dug up will automatically be declared fraudulent and/or inconsequential by them, and(imho) the only thing that should be presented to them is the bill for all this digging and wasting of time. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/4 "2010-12-28T20:04:43Z")
Your mistake is thinking they’re looking for the truth. They can’t handle the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/5 "2010-12-28T20:10:00Z")
Pointless. It’s reached the point of “unfalsifiable belief”. You could invent a time machine and show them first hand Obama emerging from the womb in a Hawaii hospital. “It’s a Kenyan hospital, and you made it look like Hawaii!” ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/6 "2010-12-28T20:12:51Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Pointless. It’s reached the point of “unfalsifiable belief”. You could invent a time machine and show them first hand Obama emerging from the womb in a Hawaii hospital. “It’s a Kenyan hospital, and you made it look like Hawaii!” They would claim the time machine had a liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/7 "2010-12-28T20:15:19Z")
You can’t fix stupid or crazy. Attempting to do so would come off as an appearance of pandering to insanity. I’m sure Obama would rather not give that impression. It would be beneath him (and us). I’m convinced birthers all know that their “movement” is a haha-funny-joke anyway. If Obama weren’t a native-born citizen, his nomination would never have been approved in the first place. Why waste the time? Conspiracy theorists, by definition, will not be convinced by evidence. After being presented with his birth certificate as they’re asking now, they’d just come up with more ridiculous demands in the future. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/8 "2010-12-28T20:21:49Z")
They’ve denied the reality of his birth certificate. They’ve denied the reality of two different newspaper announcements. What makes you think they’d accept the reality of a delivery record? You might as well try to explain physics to a 9/11 truther. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/9 "2010-12-28T20:22:23Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m sure Obama would rather not give that impression. He might not, but it’s not up to him either way. A lot of birthers assert that he can just order the state of Hawaii to release those records because he’s the president because, you know, the president has the power to tell anybody to do anything he wants, or because they’re supposed to be _his_ records to release (which they aren’t). The laws of Hawaii are what matters here. Changing them so more of these records are released won’t do anything. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/10 "2010-12-28T20:23:49Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > It’s not possible to give birth in a Hospital without creating records–even in 1961–and it’s easy to uncover records from a given period of time. They are essentially never destroyed. False. And at the time, Obama’s mother was known as Ann Dunham or Ann Obama. Calling her “Soetoro” is the quickest way to torpedo your own credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/11 "2010-12-28T20:41:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > False. > > And at the time, Obama’s mother was known as Ann Dunham or Ann Obama. Calling her “Soetoro” is the quickest way to torpedo your own credibility. That’s what I was going to say. Soetoro was her second husband’s name, who she married four years after Barack Obama was born. These birthers have been fed so much misinformation that they can’t even keep the conspiracy theories straight anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/12 "2010-12-28T20:42:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > False. > > And at the time, Obama’s mother was known as Ann Dunham or Ann Obama. Calling her “Soetoro” is the quickest way to torpedo your own credibility. According to an article in TIME ([via Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham)) her legal name at the time she died was _Ann Dunham Sutoro_. ETA: Obviously, she wasn’t a Soetoro at the time Barack was born. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/13 "2010-12-28T20:43:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > False. > > And at the time, Obama’s mother was known as Ann Dunham or Ann Obama. Calling her “Soetoro” is the quickest way to torpedo your own credibility. Good catch. I hadn’t noticed that. Nowhere in the linked article is she referred to as Soetoro. Obviously, she was known by her maiden name, Dunham, or her married name at the time, Obama. Referring to her by any other name is weird and may very well reflect the underlying psychological problems among Birthers. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/14 "2010-12-28T21:09:46Z")
Bad idea - because it let’s the crazies set the agenda. It opens up the possibility of a permanent “whack-a-mole” scenario, where you have to constantly answer every nutty challenge that pops up. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/15 "2010-12-28T21:15:45Z")
Bad idea. What if they can’t find it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/16 "2010-12-28T21:19:07Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Bad idea. What if they can’t find it? In Florida, the law only requires a health care provider to keep a patient’s records for seven years. Anything older than that almost certainly has been destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/17 "2010-12-28T22:24:44Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Bad idea. What if they can’t find it? \ That’s exactly what I was thinking. Even worse if they can find the records for the supposed day from all sorts of other patients, but not his mother’s! ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/18 "2010-12-28T23:05:14Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Apparently Governor Ambercrombie wants to lay the birthers to rest for good. Chris Matthews is right. I think it is time to put an end to this argument and controversy once and for all. Just release the complete detailed long form birth certificate with the doctor’s signature and hospital name, also release the hospital patient records, and release all the school and passport records and then we dont need to discuss this anymore. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/19 "2010-12-28T23:11:30Z")
And they’ll move the goalposts again. Just like before. And there’s no controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/20 "2010-12-28T23:13:41Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Chris Matthews is right. Yet another indication that reasonable people understand this issue was resolved years ago: Chris Matthews says it isn’t. 😉 > [@](#): > > Just release the complete detailed long form birth certificate with the doctor’s signature and hospital name, also release the hospital patient records, and release all the school and passport records and then we dont need to discuss this anymore. We never _needed_ to discuss it, and even people who were dubious were provided with enough evidence years ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637.md?page=2)