# Should Hawaii look for Ann Soetoro's delivery records? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637 "2010-12-28T19:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/21 "2010-12-28T23:23:17Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > So the governor, (having been there when he was born, apparently), should ask the Hospital to release the records of Ann Soetoro’s confinement for delivery if he wants to help his buddy out with proof. 1. Does the governor have that authority? 2. Wouldn’t that [violate HIPAA privacy statutes](http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/administrative/privacyrule/index.html)? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/22 "2010-12-28T23:41:45Z")
I agree that it’s a waste of time. Ignore the Birthers. That’s the only way to deal with them. This is like “teaching the controversy” wrt evolution. There is no fucking controversy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/23 "2010-12-29T00:03:55Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > then we dont need to discuss this anymore. Would that 'twere so. ☹ Responding to these people _in any way_ only gives them credibility. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/24 "2010-12-29T00:41:14Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Chris Matthews is right. > > I think it is time to put an end to this argument and controversy once and for all. > > Just release the complete detailed long form birth certificate with the doctor’s signature and hospital name, also release the hospital patient records, and release all the school and passport records and then we dont need to discuss this anymore. We already don’t need to discuss this anymore. Will you agree to produce all of that for yourself before you ever vote again? We want to be sure that all voters are citizens, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/25 "2010-12-29T00:43:56Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Just release the complete detailed long form birth certificate with the doctor’s signature and hospital name, also release the hospital patient records, and release all the school and passport records and then we dont need to discuss this anymore. Why should we believe that these documents will end your interest in this matter, when the birth certificate released so long ago has been certified as genuine by the Republican then-governor of Hawaii? The highest officials in the state of Hawaii have said Obama’s birth records are in order. The issue is done. There is nothing left to settle. I notice you’ve already moved the goalposts in demanding passport and school information, so why should anyone sane try to convince someone demanding such information that they are wrong? You are clearly going to believe what you want, and demand more and more trivial information. “I need photographic evidence of what shirt BHO wore on his first day of school.” “All I want to see is every single note from BHO’s mother excusing him from school for being sick.” “If she signed a sick note, all I want to see is proof that a doctor treated him for chicken pox when he was 10.” It is stupid and a non-issue. The matter was settled years ago, and Mr. Abercrombie is a fool to bring this issue up. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/26 "2010-12-29T00:48:07Z")
All Obama needs to do is submit notarized proof that he is white and the controversy will be over. Why hasn’t he done this yet? Questions are being asked. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/27 "2010-12-29T00:48:45Z")
Notice that Susanann is now asking for Barack’s school records. What the hell do school records have to do with the theory that Barack Obama was not born an American citizen? I should note that even _if_ the long form record was released, it would not be good enough. There is a theory that states, because Obama might have British citizenship through his father, he must, therefore, not have American citizenship. There is a theory that states Obama reneged his American citizenship when he was schooled abroad. There is what is called a ‘DeVattelist’ theory that says citizenship can only be inherited through the father’s side, so no matter where Obama was born, he couldn’t be a _native born_ citizen, only a ‘14th amendment’ citizen, which is clearly not the same thing. All of these theories are complete and utter bullshit. (Whatever another country thinks of you means jack shit to America: if you qualify as an American Citizen, you are one. Otherwise, Russia could have made Ronald Reagan ineligable for election by declaring him a citizen. And they would have. He could not have resigned his citizenship as a minor, and his parents could not have resigned it for him. And the DeVattel theory is powered by a complete and utter bull reading of law that can only be equaled by Free Man On The Land theory.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/28 "2010-12-29T01:14:16Z")
Right. It doesn’t matter if Barry Obama was born in Hawaii (which he was), in Kenya, in Indonesia, on Mars, or in a pocket dimension housing the lair of the super-villain Prometheus. He’s the child of an American citizen, he’s lived in the USA since he was a child, he certainly thinks he’s an American citizen; the birth records don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/29 "2010-12-29T02:14:00Z")
Anyone else wanna bet that even IF the LFBC was released, the Birthers STILL wouldn’t let it go? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/30 "2010-12-29T02:24:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Anyone else wanna bet that even IF the LFBC was released, the Birthers STILL wouldn’t let it go? No, they wouldn’t. If one form of documentation wasn’t good enough, why would another? These people all magically became experts on the subject of Hawaiian birth documentation as soon as there was an issue regarding Obama. Why would they just take someone’s word for it now? Particularly when the new governor is not only a Democrat, he’s a longtime friend of the family? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/31 "2010-12-29T02:26:24Z")
No matter what documentation is provided, Obama will still be black. That’s what it’s all about. “Kenyan” and “Muslim” in this context are code words. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/32 "2010-12-29T02:30:29Z")
“Kenyan” is a code word for “Black”? Not much of code there! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/33 "2010-12-29T02:30:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Particularly when the new governor is not only a Democrat, he’s a longtime friend of the family? It’s incredible how well planned out the whole plot was. :rolleyes:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/34 "2010-12-29T02:31:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Right. It doesn’t matter if Barry Obama was born in Hawaii (which he was), in Kenya, in Indonesia, on Mars, or in a pocket dimension housing the lair of the super-villain Prometheus. He’s the child of an American citizen, he’s lived in the USA since he was a child, he certainly thinks he’s an American citizen; the birth records don’t matter. Actually, from a legal standpoint, it does matter where he was born, because at the time he was born, a woman his mother’s age who gave birth outside of the US couldn’t pass down American citizenship to her children. So a child of a foreign national and a US citizen of Obama’s mother’s age born outside the US would not be a US citizen, even if he lived in the US since he was a child or thought he was a US citizen. He, of course, was born in Hawaii, so it doesn’t apply in President Obama’s case, but it does matter, legally. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/35 "2010-12-29T02:39:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Actually, from a legal standpoint, it does matter where he was born, because at the time he was born, a woman his mother’s age who gave birth outside of the US couldn’t pass down American citizenship to her children. So a child of a foreign national and a US citizen of Obama’s mother’s age born outside the US would not be a US citizen, even if he lived in the US since he was a child or thought he was a US citizen. I’ve read up on this argument, and it seems to me a little silly, legality notwithstanding. The _reason_ she would _technically_ not be able to pass on her citizenship is because she wasn’t alive long enough! It seems to me that the law was MEANT to apply to older people who’d immigrated, not to automatically say “you’re out of luck” to every mother who wasn’t old enough. (Although given attitudes towards teen pregnancy at the time, I could be wrong.) Still, it doesn’t seem to match up to apparent intent. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/36 "2010-12-29T02:40:45Z")
Another vote for “there’s no point to it”. These are conspiracy theorists, and conspiracy theorists are never convinced by any amount of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/37 "2010-12-29T03:04:32Z")
I see no upside to this. Only two things could happen: 1. They find hospital records. The conspiracy theorists will simply claim they’re forgeries, or irrelevant, or refer to another child, or (insert insane reationalization.) 2. The records are lost. The OP’s bizarre faith in hospital records aside, I can assure you all that there is an excellent chance the records are destroyed, lost, eaten by silverfish or God knows what else. And that would drive the conpsiracy loons absolutely around the bend. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/38 "2010-12-29T03:10:36Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Chris Matthews is right. > > I think it is time to put an end to this argument and controversy once and for all. > > Just release the complete detailed long form birth certificate with the doctor’s signature and hospital name, also release the hospital patient records, and release all the school and passport records and then we don’t need to discuss this anymore. No. No more asking for the most obscure records possible while _knowing_ that some are going to come up missing. That is the only reason you(and others) are doing this-to harass the system and keep people who have better things to do from doing them, just so you can point at their “inefficiency” later. Since you have wasted enough of our time with this partisan idiocy I offer this compromise: _Quit this nonsense, and then we don’t need to discuss this anymore._ ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/39 "2010-12-29T03:25:08Z")
Question from the Foreign Observer’s gallery: How prevalent, really, is the belief that Mr. Obama was born somewhere outside the US? One assumes “Not Very” but it does seem to keep getting discussed here on the boards (along with the people who hold said belief). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637/40 "2010-12-29T03:39:45Z")
If the poll cited here: [58 percent of GOP not sure/doubt Obama born in US - POLITICO](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html) is correct then 23% of the general population have doubts. Looking at just Republicans, 58% have doubts. To be fair, I don’t know anything about the “Research 2000” polling firm, and those numbers do seem inflated to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hawaii-look-for-ann-soetoros-delivery-records/565637.md?page=3)