# Should Hillary dump Bill? Re: the Ed Klien story. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204 "2005-06-21T15:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/21 "2005-06-21T17:17:49Z")
C’mon, guys, Clinton-bashing is _so_ Nineties. Get with the times. The political landscape has changed. Even the RW media is so scared of having the public be reminded of their “war good, blowjob bad” morality, [they’re running \*away \* from this turdheap as fast as they can](http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage3). [Even Hannity is taking time only to blast it]([http://www.newsmax.com/archives/](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/) articles/2005/6/17/145840.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/22 "2005-06-21T17:18:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Why do you think Hillary should divorce Biden. 😕 Bill was cheating on Biden? 😕 Seriously, why on earth would a divorce make her more appealing a candidate? Near as I can tell, it would sound the death knell for any (as yet nonexistant) presidential ambitions she might have. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/23 "2005-06-21T17:19:22Z")
Didn’t hurt Reagan none. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/24 "2005-06-21T17:20:37Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I thought Hillary would be better off without Bill for sometime now. I happen to think that Hillary can command her own aura without leaning on the past through her husband. If the country is to take her seriously, they need to disconnect her from Bill, otherwise it will seem like a Bill 2 presidency. She won’t get elected. Once again, this is about politics, and you were asking me why I wasn’t talking about personal stuff. Hillary’s campaign, in part, will be about differentiating herself from him. If she can’t do that, she probably won’t win. Of course, she’ll also try to benefit from his legacy. > [@](#): > > He may have been a great politician, but I don’t think the country wants to be dragged down the ‘Lewinsky’ road again For you to say that after starting this thread is mind-bogglingly absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/25 "2005-06-21T17:30:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > C’mon, guys, Clinton-bashing is _so_ Nineties. Get with the times. > > The political landscape has changed. Even the RW media is so scared of having the public be reminded of their “war good, blowjob bad” morality, [they’re running \*away \* from this turdheap as fast as they can](http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage3). [Even Hannity is taking time only to blast it]([http://www.newsmax.com/archives/](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/) articles/2005/6/17/145840.shtml). I think your links are fubar. I couldn’t access them. Could you summarize? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/26 "2005-06-21T17:32:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > For you to say that after starting this thread is mind-bogglingly absurd. Exactly why, dare I ask? (I’m trying to play nice.) I realise the Irony, but don’t you think it’ll be a real issue when/if the time comes. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/27 "2005-06-21T17:34:31Z")
BTW, here’s an interesting link that gives some idea as to how the Clintons [make it work.](http://www.advisorteam.com/newsletter/200503_hillarybill.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/28 "2005-06-21T17:50:43Z")
From the Google cache: [Observer link](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:l8UW9GKYRVAJ:www.observer.com/pages/frontpage3.asp+ed+klein+hillary+clinton+reaction+observer&hl=en). [Hannity link](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:AliLV8XTcqsJ:www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/6/17/145840.shtml+ed+klein+hillary+clinton+reaction+conservative&hl=en). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/29 "2005-06-21T17:55:18Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Exactly why, dare I ask? (I’m trying to play nice.) …because you started a thread that points straight down that road. > [@](#): > > I realise the Irony, but don’t you think it’ll be a real issue when/if the time comes. I think this book is one of the first shots in what will be a years-long Swift Boat-type salvo against Hillary on personal grounds, yes. I do think it’ll be an issue. I don’t think a divorce would solve that, as it’d just get people prying further into their personal lives. Besides, any action she takes to respond to such criticisms will be incorporated into the criticism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/30 "2005-06-21T17:57:05Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Bill was cheating on Biden? 😕 I definitely think Bill should divorce Biden. Now we’re getting somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/31 "2005-06-21T18:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] I thought Hillary would be better off without Bill for sometime now. I happen to think that Hillary can command her own aura without leaning on the past through her husband. If the country is to take her seriously, they need to disconnect her from Bill, otherwise it will seem like a Bill 2 presidency. She won’t get elected. > [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I think there is a portion of the voting public that will refuse to vote for Bill (via Hillary) again. He may have been a great politician, but I don’t think the country wants to be dragged down the ‘Lewinsky’ road again, just as they would rather not be dragged down the ‘Iraq’ road again anytime soon. This is really funny to me. Even during the Lewinsky thing, Clinton’s [approval rating](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/07/29/poll.clinton.lewinsky/) was high. > [@](#): > > Poll results show Clinton’s approval rating at 65 percent, up 4 points from 61 percent in early July. But the poll has a margin of error of plus or minus four points. > > The poll – which was based on interviews with 622 adult Americans – also showed that 66 percent of Americans now believe that Clinton had an affair with Monica Lewinsky, up from 64 percent in April. > > Fifty-six percent believe Clinton lied under oath, and 43 percent believe allegations that Clinton participated in an effort to obstruct justice by encouraging Lewinsky to lie about an alleged affair. His approval rating was at 65%, even though 56% believed he lied under oath and 43% believe he tried to obstruct justice by encouraging someone to lie. This fallacy is media perpetuated nonsense. Most people were able to separate their feelings for him as a president from their feelings of him as a man. Later, when Monica’s book was coming out and the impeachment proceedings were underway, Bill’s [approval rating](http://www.jsonline.com/news/president/0211notes.asp) was at 66%. His approval rating had been in the 60’s throughout that year. The poll also showed that 81% of respondents say they are sick of the impeachment issue. Even at the time, most people didn’t really care too much about this issue. Even as he exited office, his [approval ratings](http://www.pollingreport.com/beyle.htm) were at 57%, higher than Reagan and Eisenhower (to name a few). It is utter nonsense to think that he people wouldn’t vote for him to today because of the Lewinsky thing. He is one of the best politicians out there, and would only help Hillary if she chooses to run. > [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Maybe I should have left out the Klein book in the OP, but I couldn’t have made up a better scenario if I tried. It seemed to be a good place holder with which to kick off the thread, I was probably wrong then. You were wrong. Why not mention that he supposedly murdered Vince Foster? The reason is because nobody with any respect for the truth would repeat such highly implausible claims, without a shred of proof, during a serious discussion about politics. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/32 "2005-06-21T18:16:59Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Brace youself. > > Bullshit or not, it’s now out there. It needs to be adressed. No, it doesn’t. Divorcing Bill now would be the only thing she could do to give this bullshit gossip credibility. I was wrong about HRC; I thought she would divorce Bill within three years of his leaving office. She didn’t, and she won’t now. She needs him, for a variety of reasons, for her run for the White House. I suspect they have come to an agreement, probably unspoken but nevertheless real. As long as Bill doesn’t embarass her by getting undeniably caught, HRC will look the other way. And, as the level of scrutiny for an ex-President is radically less than for a President, this is going to be much easier to manage. It would take a pretty messy scandal to force a divorce at this point. And I suspect Bill is too smart politically to get caught again. I bow to no one in my loathing for the despicable former Prevaricator-in-Chief, but this story has no legs. And it is giving Hilary a chance to look Presidential and above it all. If HRC makes it to the White House, and Bill starts having more zipper problems in public, I suspect all bets are off. But Hilary would never dump him unless it was a situation where she would garner sympathy as a wronged woman. And divorcing him now would make her look weak and gullible, as well as opportunistic. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/33 "2005-06-21T18:28:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Didn’t hurt Reagan none. Well, he did catch some flack for it in his early political days. But by the time he was in a real position to run for POTUS in the 1970s he had been married to Nancy for 20+ years, almost 30 when he was elected. He had managed to restore his family man cred very well by then and there was no way his divorce could be seen as having to do with his political career. You think he’d have been elected if he’d remaind single? Or if he’d divorced a second time? I ain’t seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/34 "2005-06-22T02:13:50Z")
Has it crossed anyone’s mind that Hillary has stayed with Bill all these years because she actually loves him? Or is that too crazy a thought to wrap one’s mind around? ---
**Author:** ![initech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@initech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/initech)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/35 "2005-06-24T16:13:59Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Has it crossed anyone’s mind that Hillary has stayed with Bill all these years because she actually loves him? Or is that too crazy a thought to wrap one’s mind around? No. We all know that Bill and Hillary aren’t human beings, but merely insatiable political machines, incapable of feelings or remorse. Haven’t you been to a bookstore, man? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/36 "2005-06-24T16:41:06Z")
[Quick summary from Salon](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html): > [@](#): > > Maybe Ed Klein’s mother loves his new anti-Hillary book, but we’re sure having a hard time finding anyone else who does. Criticism of “The Truth about Hillary” is coming from all quarters – including some of the encampments where you’d think it would be getting a 21-gun Swift Boat salute. > > Dick Morris has already trashed the book, and, according to a piece in today’s New York Times, a lot of voices from the right are now piling on. Peggy Noonan, who knows of what she speaks, says Klein’s book is “poorly written, poorly thought, poorly sourced and full of the kind of loaded language that is appropriate to a polemic but not an investigative work.” John Podhoretz calls “The Truth About Hillary” one of “most sordid volumes” he’s ever read. And Bill O’Reilly said he won’t invite Klein to appear on his show because of the book’s “personal attacks.” > > Klein said he thinks – and there’s certainly some truth to this — that some of the criticism on the right is coming from those who fear that his book will create a backlash of sympathy for Clinton, that she’ll come to be viewed as “a victim, as the Lewinsky matter turned her into a victim, and that will strengthen her hand.” But he also says that there are sour grapes involved. “A lot of people have written or plan to write books about Hillary,” Klein tells the Times. “As 2008 approaches, there is an understandable competition and jealousy on the part of fellow writers.” Links present in the original. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/37 "2005-06-24T17:29:29Z")
People on the right with decent political insticts recognize that the main effect of the book is to drag **every** criticism of Hillary, legitimate or not, down to the level of “the bitch is one of them lez-bee-uns who was having an affair with Web Hubbel and anyway has lust for power instead of any normal human feelings”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/38 "2005-06-26T02:16:55Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Has it crossed anyone’s mind that Hillary has stayed with Bill all these years because she actually loves him? Or is that too crazy a thought to wrap one’s mind around? Honestly, no. She’s stuck with him regardless. Bill Clinton has been rumored to be a hounddog since his Governor days. It’s old news. I don’t think the book will affect anything unless she makes a lot of noise about it. I expect it to die on the vine. I heard an interview of the author and (IMO) he was quite effective in discouraging anyone from reading the book. I found it hard to believe he worked for a major newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/39 "2005-06-26T02:21:48Z")
[Here’s](http://mediamatters.org/items/200506240007) a transcript to the interview he did with Al Franken and Joe Conason on Air America radio last Friday. I have to give him credit for staying for the whole thing, I guess. He certainly embarrassed himself. Although, if he can write that book and appear in public afterwards, maybe nothing embarrasses him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204/40 "2005-06-26T02:58:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I definitely think Bill should divorce Biden. Now we’re getting somewhere. Eventually he will. He’s just Biden his time. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-hillary-dump-bill-re-the-ed-klien-story/309204.md?page=3)