# Should Homophobe Muslims in the west realize that diversity and respect run both ways? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290 "2012-02-19T01:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/241 "2012-02-22T17:14:10Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > The Canadian head of state is the head of the Anglican church. And moreover, by law he or she has to be. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/242 "2012-02-22T17:15:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > … But if the surrounding community offers to accommodate them, as a gesture of humane tolerance and generosity, as a way of signaling that they have little or nothing to fear from the strangers around them…what’s the harm? … Or like the local YMCA that had men and women only hours for the pool that they shared with the YWCA in the same building, so that my grandfather could swim naked when he wanted to. Why, or Y, I’ll never understand. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/243 "2012-02-22T17:40:47Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > The Canadian head of state is the head of the Anglican church. But she’s not the head of the Church of Canada. Canada has no established church. From **Ibn Warraq** ’s post: > [@David Frum](#): > > First, Canada for complicated historical reasons does not separate religion and state as strictly as the United States. The province of Ontario, for example, funds Catholic education all the way through high school; in Quebec, English-speaking schools are governed not by an English schoolboard but by a Protestant schoolboard. I don’t think English public schools in Quebec are governed by a Protestant school board. Quebec did have (officially) confessional schools until the 1990s, but they were then replaced with language-based schools through a constitutional amendment. There was a reorganization in the school board system at the time. Confessional (Catholic or Protestant) religious education continued in Quebec public schools for nearly a decade afterward (authorized through the use of the notwithstanding clause of the constitution), but it stopped a few years ago. Ontario does have officially Catholic schools, but that’s not all of Canada. And of course, we do get the debates over the presence of religious symbols in public places, and the arguments about how government should not promote a religion over another, or a religious lifestyle over a secular lifestyle (or vice-versa) in Canada as well. Courts have ordered some city councils to stop opening their meetings with a Christian prayer since it was an undue promotion of one confession over others. Separation of church and state may not be in the Canadian constitution in the same way as it is in the American one, but as a concept it exists here as well. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/244 "2012-02-22T18:55:10Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The problem is that you accuse anyone who resists the changes they want to make, and who are quite naturally offended and upset that “furriners” want to change the rules in their communities, of being xenophobic bigots. And in some areas, we are being overrun. Wake up and smell the hummus. > > A particulary large pebble in my shoe is that swimming pool issue. Here non-Muslim men are denied access to a public facility for two or three hours several times a week, because Muslims claim it’s against their religion for men and women to swim together; yet many of the tolerant, open-minded sophisticated, cosmopolitan people who see no probem with this will have a hissy fit over a cross in a national park. If Muslims want gender segregation, they should build or buy their own private pools. They shouldn’t be allowed to change the rules at public facilities to suit their religion. In our town, children are denied access to our public pool for two or three hours, several times a week, out of consideration for senior citizens- who enjoy a more peaceful swim without the splashing and active young people around. Oh, and for the record, I enjoy the smell and taste of hummus. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/245 "2012-02-22T19:05:55Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I assume you’d be cool with the owners forbidding tenants to have pork or alcohol on the premises or to display any religious symbols except Islamic ones. Actually, it wouldn’t bother me. Landlord can have whatever rules he or she wants as long they are enforced equally for all the tennants. Of course, I wouldn’t rent from a landlord with rules I didn’t agree with unless the housing shortage was severe. I personally would love to ban alcohol at some of my rental properties not for religious reasons, but because of some of the property damage I’ve seen because of drunken behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/246 "2012-02-22T19:12:18Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Separation of church and state may not be in the Canadian constitution in the same way as it is in the American one, but as a concept it exists here as well. Unless you want to radically redefine the term “Seperation of Church and State” Canada doesn’t have it. What they have is “religious accommodation”, and a strong belief in non-discrimination against others, but that’s not “Separation of Church and State”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/247 "2012-02-22T19:17:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Hmmm, > dogs (and other pets) banned from condos, > forbidding tenants to have pork or alcohol, > forbidding tenants to display any religious symbols except Islamic ones. > > Let me think. 😕 > > Oh yeah, that’s it, > One of these things is not like the others, > One of these things just doesn’t belong, > Can you tell which thing is not like the others, > By the time I finish my post? > > CMC fnord! > Ya know, it is entirely possible that some Muslim condo owners might just ban dogs for the exact same reason that non-Muslim condo owners do. > If you pass a law that prevents Muslim condo owners from banning dogs for specifically religious reasons they can simply ban them for the non-religious reasons that non-Muslim condo owners are allowed to, and do. > Given that I’m quite familiar with you, and your posting history, you’ll certainly forgive me for thinking that you really didn’t think this, or it, through before you decided to responded to me. To add to what you’re saying, many condo associations do ban dogs and that’s even more common in apartment buildings. Similarly, many have regulations restricting display of various symbols on the exteriors. If Lonesome ever gets out of his mother’s basement, I’m sure he’ll discover that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/248 "2012-02-22T20:53:52Z")
Oh, and by the way: > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > Christians don’t burn cars during Ramadan, They do [massacre dozens of innocent teens at camp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik) shortly before Ramadan, though. > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > nor do Christian street gangs harass and attack women whom they beleive are “immodestly” dressed, [Jewish ones do](http://observers.france24.com/content/20111227-isreal-harassment-women-clashes-police-ultra-orthodox-israelis-beit-shemesh-bet-girl-school-dress-street-sign), of course. > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > Christians have not bombed the offices of a humor magazine which they claim insulted Christianity, Nah, just [abortion clinics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#Arson.2C_bombing.2C_and_property_crime). > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > Christian mobs have not attacked mosques, [Yeah they have](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/11/1063970/-CPAC-panelist-applauds-attacks-on-mosques). [So have Jews](http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/?view=News&id=707087382). > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > Christians have not forced cartoonists and authors to go into hiding, [Just abortion doctors](http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1994_1218523/a-lonely-figure-last-abortion-doctor-in-mississipp.html). > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > and Christians have not bombed trains. Which makes all the [massacres and kidnappings](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/world/africa/barack-obama-sending-100-armed-advisers-to-africa-to-help-fight-lords-resistance-army.html) look pretty insignificant, of course. Cue the predictable whining and hairsplitting about how “that doesn’t count as **Christian** violence!” or “they didn’t do that **because** they were Jews!”, etc., etc. Which, of course, is exactly my point. There’s really no such thing as “Muslim violence” or “Christian violence” or “Jewish violence” (or, of course, Hindu or Buddhist or atheist violence, etc.) _per se_. There’s violence committed by certain Muslims and Christians and Jews, etc., in accordance with some part of their religious worldview. But all of these acts are also shaped by other ideological and political factors. It would be idiotic and bigoted reductionism to try to classify them **merely** as religious violence pure and simple. It is certainly true (and nobody here has tried to deny or gloss over it) that over the past few decades, radical-fundamentalist extremist violence has been more prevalent among sects of Islam than in those of most other major religions. (Not necessarily more prevalent than in **any** other religion, though: for instance, various small cults such as Aum Shinrikyo have higher percentages of terrorism advocates than Islam does, and one could make a similar case for certain subdivisions of Hinduism.) But what that means is “Islamic radical-fundamentalist extremist violence is a serious problem”. Not “Muslim violence is a serious problem”. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/249 "2012-02-22T20:58:37Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Unless you want to radically redefine the term “Seperation of Church and State” Canada doesn’t have it. > > What they have is “religious accommodation”, and a strong belief in non-discrimination against others, but that’s not “Separation of Church and State”. How do you want to define “separation of church and state” such that the US has it but Canada does not? The concept doesn’t appear in its constitution except as a codified guarantee of “religious accommodation”. Not necessarily saying you’re _wrong_ but I suspect you’re overstating it. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/250 "2012-02-22T21:23:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > [Jewish ones do](http://observers.france24.com/content/20111227-isreal-harassment-women-clashes-police-ultra-orthodox-israelis-beit-shemesh-bet-girl-school-dress-street-sign), of course. Speaking as a Jew, I think the overwhelming majority of objections to Muslims apply to us Hebrews as well. Sharia law? Beit dins. Weird head gear? Check Ban on pork? Big check The main difference I see is that we have already successfully infiltrated all the positions of power. Plenty of senators and congressman know it would mean the end of their careers to speak out against Israel. Food sold in the USA is routinely certified kosher (at an added expense to the consumer). Bagels are everywhere. Hmm, maybe what folks are really saying is ‘We don’t want the Muslims to achieve what the Jews have.’ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/251 "2012-02-22T21:29:53Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > How do you want to define “separation of church and state” such that the US has it but Canada does not? The concept doesn’t appear in its constitution except as a codified guarantee of “religious accommodation”. Not necessarily saying you’re _wrong_ but I suspect you’re overstating it. Well, in the First Amendment we’ve got the statement “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”, which in conjunction with its historical interpretation by the courts amounts to a fairly strong ban on government entanglement with religion. As [Wiki notes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause), > [@](#): > > The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. The first approach is called the “separation” or “no aid” interpretation, while the second approach is called the “non-preferential” or “accommodation” interpretation. The accommodation interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government’s entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause. So it appears (to my totally naive layperson’s view, at least) that in the Canadian constitution there’s no reason you **couldn’t** have an established church, just that if you **did** have one you’d have to accommodate minority religions fairly as well. Whereas in the US, the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause is tantamount to Ain’t Got No Official Gummint Religion and Can’t Have One Even If We Wanted To, Nosiree, Can’t Even Make It _Look_ Like We Got One, Nix Nix Nix on the Church of USA, Chuckie. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/252 "2012-02-22T21:30:02Z")
Was it Mel Brooks? “So, we are the Chosen People? Would You mind choosing somebody else for a while?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/253 "2012-02-22T21:41:01Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Speaking as a Jew, I think the overwhelming majority of objections to Muslims apply to us Hebrews as well. > > Sharia law? > > Beit dins. > > Weird head gear? > > Check > > Ban on pork? > > Big check Check also on the foreskin snip and backwards writing and literal interpretation of monotheism. [QUOTE=DocCathode] The main difference I see is that we have already successfully infiltrated all the positions of power. Plenty of senators and congressman know it would mean the end of their careers to speak out against Israel. Food sold in the USA is routinely certified kosher (at an added expense to the consumer). Bagels are everywhere. Hmm, maybe what folks are really saying is ‘We don’t want the Muslims to achieve what the Jews have.’ [/QUOTE] Interesting point, but I think what it mostly boils down to is “We feel comfortable with Jews now and don’t find them scary anymore”. Which, a short hundred years ago or so during a rise in Jewish immigration and terror attacks by anarchist radicals, many of them Jews, was most emphatically not the case. As the UK’s [Jewish Chronicle pointed out](http://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/we-were-once-maniacs), > [@](#): > > Terror suspects, caught by police surveillance, boast of the blood-curdling havoc they hope to wreak. “The corpse of an enemy smells nice”, they hiss. In messages addressed to the British public, they say the deaths they plan are “retribution you have so justly earned.” After all, insist the killers, “For many years we have suffered humiliation.” […] > > All of the quotations above — though uncannily contemporary — did not come from today’s Islamist militants. Those words are, instead, lifted straight from the mouths of an earlier generation of extremists: anarchists who plotted violent mayhem on the streets of London at the turn of the last century. Many, if not most, were Jews. […] > > […] “the despicable crew of aliens who eat our bread and have the audacity to preach the overthrow of a society that protects them with its laws.” It could be any of today’s tabloid ranters taking yet another swipe at Britain’s Muslims. But that sentence was lifted from an 1891 Evening News editorial: Jews as Anarchists. The Daily Express and Daily Mail were not to be outdone, the Mail speaking of the “scum of Europe” turning the East End into a “great foreign city,” concluding “It’s time to exclude [them]; we don’t want them here.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/254 "2012-02-22T21:44:00Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > How do you want to define “separation of church and state” such that the US has it but Canada does not? The concept doesn’t appear in its constitution except as a codified guarantee of “religious accommodation”. Not necessarily saying you’re _wrong_ but I suspect you’re overstating it. For starters, any Country in which, by law, the Head of State has to be the head of the Anglican Church does not have “Separation of Church and State” nor for that matter does any State which has official schools for Catholic students. By the standards being set, if Canada has “Separation of Church and State” then virtually every country in the Middle East, except for Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel and one or two others, have Separation of Church and State. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/255 "2012-02-22T22:05:46Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > For starters, any Country in which, by law, the Head of State has to be the head of the Anglican Church does not have “Separation of Church and State” nor for that matter does any State which has official schools for Catholic students. But that Canada has a monarchy at all, and _particularly_ that its monarch heads the Church of England, are practically insignificant historical accidents that have no effect on the lives of any Canadian. Technically speaking it’s true that, contra the US, Canada has a monarch and that monarch is the head of the Anglican Church. But this has no bearing on whether Canadians would allow greater or less involvement of the Church in political matters, which I take to be the primary thrust behind “separation of church and state”. > [@](#): > > By the standards being set, if Canada has “Separation of Church and State” then virtually every country in the Middle East, except for Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel and one or two others, have Separation of Church and State. Eh. “Separation of church and state” is a principle, not something enshrined in some one specific law. When a country’s government does not allow — and would not allow — a large degree of religious tampering in its political process, I think it counts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/256 "2012-02-22T22:14:08Z")
Wait a minute! You guys made that Bieber kid King of Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/257 "2012-02-22T22:19:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Was it Mel Brooks? “So, we are the Chosen People? Would You mind choosing somebody else for a while?” That line (or a close variant) is used in _Fiddler on the Roof_, though I’m sure the concept goes back much further. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/258 "2012-02-22T22:28:16Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Eh. “Separation of church and state” is a principle, not something enshrined in some one specific law. When a country’s government does not allow — and would not allow — a large degree of religious tampering in its political process, I think it counts. Fair enough. If you wish to redefine the term you certainly can. I assume then you’re also outraged at all the idiots squealing about Islam being a threat to the western tradition of “Separation of Church and State” since, by your standard, virtually all Muslim countries practice it and most do so to an even greater degree than Valteron’s beloved Canada. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/259 "2012-02-22T22:41:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That line (or a close variant) is used in _Fiddler on the Roof_, though I’m sure the concept goes back much further. [Aside] I am particularly fond of a Twain essay on the Jews. Using the crude population data available at the time, he estimated that the Jews numbered close to, but less than, one percent of the population. And that even their enemies, perhaps unintentionally, testify to their significance in world affairs, far out of proportion to their numbers. And further to their representation in intellectual endeavors, such as academics and science. TL:DR They really are smarter than the rest of us. [/Aside] ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/260 "2012-02-22T23:04:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > TL:DR They really are smarter than the rest of us. Don’t sell yourself short. It’s pretty clear that you’re doing the best you can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290.md?page=14)