# Should Homophobe Muslims in the west realize that diversity and respect run both ways? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290 "2012-02-19T01:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/161 "2012-02-21T03:15:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Did you accidentally quote the wrong posts? > > Neither, Miller nor Tom called you names. Miller called me an asshole and Tomndeb called me a “shrill Chicken Little”. Should I pronounce a Fatwa against them and have them whacked? ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/162 "2012-02-21T03:22:30Z")
I realize my posting at #130 is VERY long, but much of it is adressed to you. If you are too busy, maybe you can deal with just this part: Ibn, let me leave you with a personal but true story. An Imam of the local Mosque in my city in Canada was participating in a discussion group. I asked him this question. It was during the period that Salman Rushdie still had a Fatwa against him. I asked this Imam what he would do if he knew that Rushdie was at a certain nearby, unprotected house in our city, and a Muslim gunman asked where he was. What would he, as a Canadian citizen, do? Now, the answer seems simple. Any law-abiding Canadian would refuse to tell the person, and call the police to report the incident. Believe it or not, this Imam would not answer my question. He kept objecting that it was “hypothetical”. But since when is it impossible to answer a hypothetical question according to your moral beliefs? What does this Imam’s sneaky refusal to answer tell you? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/163 "2012-02-21T03:26:28Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Miller called me an asshole and Tomndeb called me a “shrill Chicken Little”. > > Should I pronounce a Fatwa against them and have them whacked? Miller didn’t call you an asshole and Tom didn’t call you “a shrill little chicken.” Also, as to your reference to “fatwa”, I’m reminded of the line “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/164 "2012-02-21T03:36:21Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I don’t know about Canada, but here in the US, every reported gay bashing I’ve heard of was committed by either white rednecks or ghetto African-Americans, not Muslims. Please tell me where I can subscribe to these statistics on every reported gay-bashing in the United States with the stats broken down according to the religious identification of the perpetrator. I would be interested in seeing that list! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/165 "2012-02-21T03:43:18Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Someone answer my questions: I repeat: > > There have been books critical of Buddhism. Have you ever heard of a Buddhist “authority” pronouncing a death Fatwa against an author as Islam did against Salman Rushdie? > > There are cartoons poking fun at the Pope. Does the Pope get the Swiss Guard to whack you? > > Millions of Christians were offended by Martin Scorsese’s Last Temptation of Christ. Did Christians riot, kill people and burn down embassies? > > Would I be imprisoned if I went to any Christian country on Earth and named a Teddy Bear “Jesus”? > > Is there any other religion in the world today besides Islam in which mainstream opinion says you should be killed if you decide to leave that religion? You have already decided what the answers to these questions are, and surely those are the only answers you’d ever accept from anyone here. Kindly stop insulting people’s intelligence. Now, how about shitcanning the rhetoric and cutting to the chase. What do you want us to do, collectively, about the muslim problem? Here, I’ll suggest some possibilities; suppose you tell me which of these you advocate: 1. Wring our collective hands about the supposed violent nature of muslims on an Internet message board (I’m assuming that one’s a yes) 2. Put all muslims in the US and Canada under increased surveillance 3. Enact laws limiting the ability of muslims to practice their faith, such as building mosques 4. Deportation of foreign-born muslims and jailing of domestic-born muslims who, say, refuse to sign a document disavowing violence in defense of the faith 5. Forced conversion, with deportation or imprisonment penalties for refusal 6. A ‘final solution’ to the muslim problem, couched in whatever euphemism you happen to need to avoid facing the true implications. So tell me, **Valteron** , what do we need to do to help you feel safe up there (apparently) muslim-overrun Canada? Be aware that anything I might do would be for you and you alone, because I personally don’t feel threatened by muslims at all. But hey, I’m willing to help since you seem utterly terrified to step out your door. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/166 "2012-02-21T03:46:55Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Miller didn’t call you an asshole and Tom didn’t call you “a shrill little chicken.” > > Also, as to your reference to “fatwa”, I’m reminded of the line “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” Are you not able to look up past postings? Miller Calls me an asshole in posting at#151 and Tomndebb calls me a “shrill Chicken Little” in the last paragraph of his posting at #155. Frankly, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if I am using Fatwa right or not. It is a joke. But for the Danish cartoonists and for Salman Rushdie it was no joke. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/167 "2012-02-21T03:50:27Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > You have already decided what the answers to these questions are, and surely those are the only answers you’d ever accept from anyone here. Kindly stop insulting people’s intelligence. > > Now, how about shitcanning the rhetoric and cutting to the chase. What do you want us to do, collectively, about the muslim problem? > > Here, I’ll suggest some possibilities; suppose you tell me which of these you advocate: > > 1. Wring our collective hands about the supposed violent nature of muslims on an Internet message board (I’m assuming that one’s a yes) > > 2. Put all muslims in the US and Canada under increased surveillance > > 3. Enact laws limiting the ability of muslims to practice their faith, such as building mosques > > 4. Deportation of foreign-born muslims and jailing of domestic-born muslims who, say, refuse to sign a document disavowing violence in defense of the faith > > 5. Forced conversion, with deportation or imprisonment penalties for refusal > > 6. A ‘final solution’ to the muslim problem, couched in whatever euphemism you happen to need to avoid facing the true implications. > > So tell me, **Valteron** , what do we need to do to help you feel safe up there (apparently) muslim-overrun Canada? Be aware that anything I might do would be for you and you alone, because I personally don’t feel threatened by muslims at all. But hey, I’m willing to help since you seem utterly terrified to step out your door. Actually, none of the above. The first step would be for people like you in the democratic west to pull their head out of their ass. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/168 "2012-02-21T04:14:41Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Thank you for your comments. Even though this is the Pit, I prefer not to descend to your level of childish name-calling. Provided the target is not Muslim, of course. As to your claim that reports are being santized in an effort to be politically correct, I forced to the conclusion that you are simply inventing that claim until such time as you present something other than your rants and personal anecdotes as evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/169 "2012-02-21T04:21:28Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Are you not able to look up past postings? No. I’ve looked at them and you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > Miller Calls me an asshole in posting at#151 No, he did not. > [@](#): > > Tomndebb calls me a “shrill Chicken Little” in the last paragraph of his posting at #155. No he did not. If you want to insist they did then please quote me where they did. > [@](#): > > Frankly, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if I am using Fatwa right or not. Thank you for admitting to your ignorance of Islam and the fact that you’re completely unconcerned with the truth. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/170 "2012-02-21T05:20:21Z")
Come on Ibn, help the man out. He obviously can’t sleep at night unless he’s being properly persecuted. Valteron, you are an asshole and a shrill chicken little. Do you feel better now? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/171 "2012-02-21T05:26:33Z")
Well, you know how those people are. They’re not like us. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/172 "2012-02-21T06:12:37Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Actually, none of the above. The first step would be for people like you in the democratic west to pull their head out of their ass. And what would that constitute, exactly? See, you claim to have points to debate. Here is your chance. Explain what specific actions would consitute ‘pulling one’s head out of their ass’ regarding muslims. From here is seems to me that all you want to do is post extremist opinions that you already know few are likely to agree with unquestioningly, then yell at people when they, unsurprisingly, don’t share your extremist views. So, if that’s incorrect, correct me. State, clearly, what outcome you want and how you expect to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/173 "2012-02-21T06:17:17Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > So what would an extremist Muslim do? He would hijack planes, slit the throats of the flight crews and fly them into skyscrapers bringing death and destruction to thousands of innocent people in the name of Allah. > > Look at Buddhism. Yes, Sinhalese Buddhists have fought with Tamils in Sri Lanka, but by and large, given their numbers, how often have you heard of Buddhists conquering countries to convert people to their religion? Buddhism isn’t a monotheistic religion dedicated to spreading, so of course it doesn’t do that. Christianity on the other hand is such a religion and does. And the reason you see Muslim fanatics do things like that is because they don’t have the military power to do better. Bush didn’t send planes full of suicidal fanatics after Iraq because he had an actual military. You are looking at terrorism, which is a strategy of weakness, and interpreting it as a sign of how powerful and numerous the fanatics are. _One guy_ can be a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/174 "2012-02-21T06:22:42Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > And what would that constitute, exactly? Engaging in dialog with, joining, or forming a fascist organization from the looks of it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/175 "2012-02-21T06:53:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Miller didn’t call you an asshole … Like hell I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/176 "2012-02-21T07:40:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Like hell I didn’t. Well, you didn’t call him one, you simply made it clear to everyone you thought he was an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/177 "2012-02-21T07:41:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Come on Ibn, help the man out. He obviously can’t sleep at night unless he’s being properly persecuted. > > Valteron, you are an asshole and a shrill chicken little. > Do you feel better now? Oh very well. I’ll give him his heart’s desire and do you one better. Valteron, you’re a kaffir and deserve to be treated as such. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/178 "2012-02-21T07:54:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > As to your claim that reports are being santized in an effort to be politically correct, I forced to the conclusion that you are simply inventing that claim until such time as you present something other than your rants and personal anecdotes as evidence. The claim is laughable, particularly in France where \*\*Valteron \*_apparently hails from. Our police has been quite openly racist for the last, oh, always ; not to mention our President recently banned burqas (all 200 or so of them. Seriously, that’s how many burqa wearers there were in France at the time this dire threat became a National Problem) as a political stunt to woo people like **Valteron** , and didn’t face much opposition in Parliament when he did so. One would think that stunt alone, and the language that came with it, would be evidence enough that the Islamic vote bloc is much less numerous and vocal than the Xenophobic Fuckwad vote bloc, not to mention dispel any illusion of there being “political correctness”_ afoot. - which of course is code for “when I say racist shit, people call me racist ! WTF ?!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/179 "2012-02-21T08:21:52Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The claim is laughable, particularly in France where \*\*Valteron \*\*apparently hails from. I may be mistaken, but I think he’s French Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290/180 "2012-02-21T10:28:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I may be mistaken, but I think he’s French Canadian. Ah, you’re right, I missed the Canadian part. Well then, at least he’s got the excuse of not having the slightest idea what the hell he’s talking about. It’s not a particularly good excuse of course, but dammit he’s got it ! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobe-muslims-in-the-west-realize-that-diversity-and-respect-run-both-ways/613290.md?page=10)