# Should homophobia get more moderator attention? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 11, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798 "2015-05-11T17:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/21 "2015-05-11T20:10:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am saying that your argument is the No True Scotsman fallacy, where “true Scotsman” = “legitimate topic for discussion”. > No true Scotsman put sugar in his porridge. > > My uncle Angus puts sugar in his porridge. > > Your uncle Angus is not a true Scotsman. > No topic is legitimate for discussion unles it is brought out in the OP. > > The fact that it was a lesbian couple was brought out in the OP. > > The fact that is is a lesbian couple is not a legitimate topic of discussion. > > _:shrugs:_ > > I don’t actually believe you don’t understand, but FTR. > > Regards, > Shodan Okay, whatever: I really didn’t understand. And the reason for that is that THAT IS NOT HOW THE FALLACY WORKS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID. Edit: also, you mixed your metaphors all to fuck and back in that snarky post, making it even more incoherent. For example, I did not say that “the fact that is is a lesbian couple is not a legitimate topic of discussion.” Nor did I say anything similar to that. Instead, I offered an example. I could repost the example about church, but instead I invite you to read the example and respond to it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/22 "2015-05-11T20:12:01Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The fact that there are two mothers in the family does make it a _different_ scenario from the son-forgets-mothers-day scenario that many of us are familiar with, but that’s just a detail of the case being discussed. > > It’s neither useful nor should it be acceptable to respond along the lines of “it’s because you’re being too gay”. This is true, and honestly I think it’s an interesting logistical twist, akin to a kid whose parents have the same birthday forgetting to get them a present. A tiny part of what made UR’s posts so annoying is that it was hard to discuss that logistical twist, because any such discussion risked getting caught up in the offensive homophobic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/23 "2015-05-11T20:19:51Z")
Gosh, that mangling of the fallacy is really irritating. Here’s what the NTS would look like if it equaled legitimate topic of discussion: “No legitimate topic of discussion is absent from the OP.” “Being lesbian is absent from the OP [and is a legitimate topic of discussion].” “Being lesbian is not a legitimate topic of discussion.” The key is that the second step must contradict the first step, showing a counterexample. Also note how, properly framed, it has nothing to do with the thread in question. You said: No topic is legitimate for discussion unles it is brought out in the OP. The fact that it was a lesbian couple was brought out in the OP. The fact that is is a lesbian couple is not a legitimate topic of discussion. Note that your second step does not offer a counterexample to the first step. It is mangled logically, it’s mangled inasmuch as it doesn’t represent what I said, and it’s completely inapplicable to the thread in question. No wonder I had no idea what you were getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/24 "2015-05-11T20:21:39Z")
(In response to post #22) I thought so too. On reading the thread title, my mind jumped to the the answer “it’s the father’s job to ensure this doesn’t happen”. Of course there are other contexts besides this one where that formula doesnt work, so it’s an interesting situation, but one that can easily be discussed without resorting to insult. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/25 "2015-05-11T21:39:53Z")
To take two examples: in that thread, **Shodan** suggested the issue was gay-related with no supporting facts. It seemed like a bit of a leap that may or may not be rooted in prejudice. It deserves to be questioned by other posters, but it at least addressed the OP’s question and should not be modded IMO. On the other hand, **UR’s** posts were insulting and nothing more than threadshitting and should have received at least a note to keep things on track. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/26 "2015-05-11T21:45:28Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Take some of the posts made by him and insert ethnicity of your choice: > > quotes definitely changed by me: > > "Do you ever get annoyed with certain members of the **black** community for being so in your face to **non-blacks** about it or other behavior? Do you ever get annoyed with certain members of the white community for being so in your face to non-whites about it or other behavior? Do you ever get annoyed with certain members of the Liberal community for being so in your face to non-Liberals about it or other behavior? Do you ever get annoyed with certain members of the dog-owning community for being so in your face to non-dog-owners about it or other behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/27 "2015-05-11T21:48:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Do you ever get annoyed with certain members of the white community for being so in your face to non-whites about it or other behavior? Plenty of people get annoyed with certain members of the straight community for being so in your face to non-straights about their breeder behavior. But if I posted about what I was going to do for my wife for Mother’s Day, and somebody came in and started talking about us breeders and the propaganda we’re shoving down our kids’ throats about heteronormativity or some such, it’d be jerkish behavior. And I don’t see a relevant difference. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/28 "2015-05-11T21:57:32Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I don’t think any of those statements (either the original or the hypothetical edited versions you post here) are worthy of moderation. They may be worthy of derision, pitting, etc., but I don’t think any of those statements as written should be prohibited by Board rules. > > In the interest of ‘fighting ignorance’ I think we need to allow posts like this to be made, and responded to appropriately. As long as there is no overt ‘hate speech’, I think the best course of action is to allow the community here to deal with these sorts of actions. In due course, most of the ‘offenders’ will either change their tune, take their opinions somewhere else, or wind up overtly stepping over the line and getting Modded for that. And if they manage to stay here in an active fashion, then they expose themselves for what they are…and the more time they spend here defending themselves the less time they spend elsewhere, where they might find more malleable minds to expose themselves to. Well put, and this is the view I’m leaning toward. Plus, people who post comments like these—assuming they’re sincere and not just trolling—are, in their own perverse way, fighting my ignorance, by letting me know how some people out there really think. On the other hand, I don’t want the SDMB to turn into a place where gay, or any other type of, people feel unwelcome or uncomfortable because of ignorant or bigoted comments made about them. So, I’m torn. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/29 "2015-05-11T22:08:40Z")
Should homophobia get more moderator attention? I think that’s something we’re going to have to leave to the moderators. They are the ones who have to identify what is homophobia, hate speech, racism, etc and what is robust discourse allowable within the rules. Frankly it’s not a decision I envy them. They will never please everybody and maybe that’s as it should be. One person’s homophobia is another person’s strong religious belief. This stuff ain’t easy! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/30 "2015-05-11T22:09:46Z")
I’ve learned on the board that it’s necessary to tolerate some offensive opinions in order to maintain an intellectually honest discussion. I’ve also learned how easy it is to post something stupid that unintentionally is offensive. However in **tapu** ’s recent thread there were some offensive comments directed to her specifically and not simple general opinions. Perhaps if those posts were reported there would have been moderator action. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/31 "2015-05-11T22:13:02Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’ve learned on the board that it’s necessary to tolerate some offensive opinions in order to maintain an intellectually honest discussion. I’ve also learned how easy it is to post something stupid that unintentionally is offensive. However in **tapu** ’s recent thread there were some offensive comments directed to her specifically and not simple general opinions. Perhaps if those posts were reported there would have been moderator action. The post I responded to was written at 1:04 am. It was reported before 6:45 am. It was not moderated. I think the mods should distinguish clearly between general opinions, and opinions directed at other posters specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/32 "2015-05-11T22:19:06Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Take some of the posts made by him and insert ethnicity of your choice: > > quotes definitely changed by me: > > "Do you ever get annoyed with certain members of the **black** community for being so in your face to **non-blacks** about it or other behavior? > > "Or, they want to be famous in the **black** community and what better way to get to be the pride of the Pride parade than being the person who shuts down a business. > > I mean are **blacks** just running around begging and pleading for some business to slight them so they can go after them? What’s wrong with just taking your money somewhere else?" > > It definitely feels uncomfortable at the least. > > This is all because people think sexuality is still in our choice, which makes absolutely no sense to me. It might be mutable, but I knew I liked boys from a very young age, far before puberty or before I even thought about a choice. I would argue that statements like that should not be lead to moderator action. The way to fight such ignorance and hate is to draw.it into the light for rebuttal, refutation, and mockery, not to drive it underground. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/33 "2015-05-11T22:26:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The post I responded to was written at 1:04 am. It was reported before 6:45 am. It was not moderated. > > I think the mods should distinguish clearly between general opinions, and opinions directed at other posters specifically. There was also a request to close relayed to the mods at 2:21PM and the thread is still open. Perhaps the mods are busy evaluating the situation. I’d like to hear what they have to say about this. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/34 "2015-05-11T23:55:35Z")
I can only speak about the forums that I moderate. I personally don’t have any more tolerance for anti-gay speech than any other kind of hate speech. GQ is for factual questions. We allow a bit of leeway once the question has been addressed factually, and folks can express opinions and joke around a bit, etc. In that context, you can express homophobic opinions as it might relate to the topic being discussed, but really, once you start expressing opinions, especially those that are likely to elicit strong reactions from others, your post probably belongs in another forum anyway. Since most of those types of opinions are likely to derail a GQ thread, it’s probably best in most circumstances to just stick to things that can be factually cited and save the homophobic comments for a more appropriate forum. In any event, anything that actually crosses the line into hate speech, whether it is homophobic or anything else, has no business in GQ. In ATMB, you are expected to be civil. This isn’t the Pit or even the Pit Light. Treat all other users with respect. That means no insults of any sort. Hate speech is way over the line for ATMB. I’ll be fairly surprised if anyone ever posts hate speech in the Marketplace, but just for the sake of completeness, the Marketplace is just a user benefit where you can sell stuff. It isn’t the place for debate of any sort and certainly isn’t a place for insults of any sort. In any forum, if you think something needs our attention, even if you aren’t sure, please report it. We would rather receive too many post reports than miss an issue because someone was afraid to report it. There is never any penalty for reporting something that we later decide isn’t an infraction. We get plenty of post reports where the person reporting it isn’t sure if it’s actually a problem or not. We don’t mind those, so please keep sending them in. Also, please keep in mind that homosexuality is currently a hot button topic for a lot of folks. The gay marriage debate is currently very heated in certain parts of the U.S. (and elsewhere) and what may seem like an innocent comment to you may start a rather large argument with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/35 "2015-05-12T01:08:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The OP made it a point that the son in question “had two mothers”, and explained that meant he was being raised by a lesbian couple in a post shortly subsequent. So it was part of the original question. Okay. The next time you bring up your kids and your wife, I will be glad to point out that, if only your kids had a gay influence in their life, they might become decent people. And then harass you for putting your heterosexuality in my face, and talk about your breeder agenda. Bringing up your life partner and kids is not an invitation to talk about any of that. Nor is it waving things in anyone’s face. If you were having a conversation about heterosexuality or procreation, then it would be a topic of discussion. This other was a hijack for GD-level stuff and should have been moderated. “If you want to discuss whether there is a homosexual agenda or the value of same sex parenting, please take it to GD. In this thread, it is a hijack.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/36 "2015-05-12T01:46:24Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I take the fact that a moderator hasn’t replied yet as an indication that the proposal is not getting summarily slapped down and will be discussed among the moderators. If so, thank you for the consideration. As far as I’m concerned the answer to your #1 question in the OP is “no” so that doesn’t lead to much discussion. If you feel a particular post is against the rules then report it. But please note that stating an unpopular, ignorant or outright incorrect opinion is not necessarily against the rules. The default since I have been a poster has always been to allow others to refute such opinions. As Miller said in the current Pit thread, “It’s hard to fight ignorance if we don’t allow ignorant people to post their ignorant ideas.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/37 "2015-05-12T09:57:41Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > 1. Is this accurate? Is there more tolerance for anti-gay posts than for other types of bigotry like anti-black or anti-Jewish posts? No. We don’t have regular GD threads questioning whether gays are genetically inclined to stupidity, the way it happens for Blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/38 "2015-05-12T10:24:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Plenty of people get annoyed with certain members of the straight community for being so in your face to non-straights about their breeder behavior. But if I posted about what I was going to do for my wife for Mother’s Day, and somebody came in and started talking about us breeders and the propaganda we’re shoving down our kids’ throats about heteronormativity or some such, **it’d be jerkish behavior**. And I don’t see a relevant difference. From a board moderation standpoint this is probably the most relevant point - it’s not whether **Urbanredneck** et alia are being homophobes; it’s whether they’re being jerks (outside the Pit). Expressing an anti-gay opinion is fine (well, not really, but you know what I mean). Being needlessly assholish in the way one expresses it is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/39 "2015-05-12T10:37:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > From a board moderation standpoint this is probably the most relevant point - it’s not whether **Urbanredneck** et alia are being homophobes; it’s whether they’re being jerks (outside the Pit). Expressing an anti-gay opinion is fine (well, not really, but you know what I mean). Being needlessly assholish in the way one expresses it is another matter. Yeah–while I have mixed feelings about whether scientific racists and the like should get to spout off in great debates, there’s a real difference between saying (for example) “gays make bad parents” and saying “your current parenting difficulties are because you’re gay.” The latter is a personal attack to a much greater degree than the former. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798/40 "2015-05-12T11:00:13Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > … > > 1. Is this accurate? Is there more tolerance for anti-gay posts than for other types of bigotry like anti-black or anti-Jewish posts? > > 2. If so, should there be more leeway when it comes to anti-gay posts than for other groups? > > … I do not believe #1 is true, while I did not check all (or even most) of the links to his postings, I could see someone substitute Irish or Blacks or other group and also go on non-moderated. The reason is it’s obviously hateful, this person just demeans themself by such statements. So in a why they are just moderating themselves as people will seem them for exactly who they are. As for #2, I don’t see this as a good example to consider, so it comes down to the evidence submitted, however as I pointed out this poster is self moderating by revealing his hatred which is turning off people to his posts. So I have not seen a reason given that #2 would be needed. Not saying it’s not, but there is nothing here to justify it IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homophobia-get-more-moderator-attention/719798.md?page=3)