I haven’t moved the goalposts at all.
You said that I *could *expect it.
And my response was that it was too ridiculous to bother about.
The thread under discussion was about parenting advice.
Does the fact that you were Warned for doing it tell you anything about how appropriate it would be for you to threaten to do it again?
I’ll thank you not to try to tell me what I think.
Regards,
Shodan
No, she actually explained what she meant; she didn’t just repeat it.
She said her son had two moms, and I believe her. She said that by this, she meant that she was in a lesbian relationship, and I believe her. If she says “and nobody better say anything about it that I don’t like” I will believe her too.
There’s a chance, of course.
Regards,
Shodan
It feels like there are two separate issues being discussed here. As I see it, we have:
.
I agree. In my opinion there is a line where if used to disparage another poster it will be against the current rules. Where that line is falls under the category of personal judgement within the context of each thread and post.
Most are expressing either displeasure at what was said in another thread or seem to believe that perceived anti-gay statements are treated differently than racial statements under current rules. You seem to be the only one advocating a new rule.
I don’t make new rules. The rules in place and any proposed changes certainly aren’t made due to popular opinion. However, historically I have found the majority are in favor of less heavy handed moderation rather than more.
What she meant (at least, what I think she meant based on her posts – I’d love it if tapu could chime in and clarify!) was that her son had two moms for Mother’s Day. That they were lesbians was irrelevant to this point. Then someone asked for the specific circumstances of the two moms thing, and she answered this question.
This is not what I read, and not what I interpreted.
tapu – can you clarify? Did you mention the “two moms” thing in the OP to tell everyone that you’re in a lesbian relationship and that is relevant to the question, or did you mention it because you thought it was relevant that your son has two mothers for which to celebrate Mother’s Day (and the fact that you’re in a lesbian relationship is not relevant, and only mentioned later to answer a specific question)?
Not precisely a new rule: rather, a clear interpretation of an existing rule against personal attacks. And I’m not the only one: when I suggested this interpretation be clear, there were posts like this:
And these are from the first page.
I’m far from the only person who thinks this distinction should be drawn. No new rules are necessary: personal attacks are already forbidden. This sort of thing should be considered a personal attack. I’m almost certain they’ve been considered such in the past.
No. You are simply, clearly, factually wrong.
Here is the exchange:
This could not be any clearer. elbows asks what “he has two moms” means, and she responds directly “it means we are a lesbian couple”.
tapu says, very clearly and explicitly and in so many words, that “he has two moms” means “we are a lesbian couple”. There is no possibilty of any mistake - she is asked exactly what you wanted, and responds exactly as I said.
There is no ambiguity whatsoever. “He has two moms” means “we are a lesbian couple”. tapu says exactly that.
Regards,
Shodan
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying the only reason tapu mentioned the “lesbian” part is because she was specifically asked, not because it was actually relevant to her question. If no one had asked, she never would have brought it up – she would have let it stand at “two moms”. The lesbian part is irrelevant to her OP. At least, that’s how I took it. Maybe tapu can clarify.
How hard do you need your nose rubbed in this? What you are saying is wrong.
tapu mentioned the lesbian part in her OP, because “he has two moms” MEANS “we are in a lesbian relationship”. She says exactly that.
So, she meant to put it in her OP, she meant to convey the information that she was in a lesbian relationship, and she thought it was relevant enough to put in her OP.
:shrugs:
If I have learned anything on the SDMB, it is that there is no way to force someone to understand English if they don’t want to.
Regards,
Shodan
Yet again, Shodan refuses to answer the question about whether he’d welcome anti-theist attacks in a thread he opened where he mentioned an incident in the church parking lot.
Yet again, Left Hand of Dorkness declines to understand something he doesn’t like.
Regards,
Shodan
In the interests of not giving an excuse to shut this thread down due to personal sniping, I’ll leave it there.
No, that’s your interpretation. Interpretation really can differ – and tapu really could clear this up (if she’s even aware of our disagreement). “Means” in this case could mean (heh) that she intended for the lesbian part to be part of her OP, or it could mean that “for your question, I mean we’re a lesbian couple”. That doesn’t mean necessarily that she thought the fact that the two moms are lesbians is relevant to the OP.
I’m sure this seems very clear to you – many things seem very clear to me that probably don’t to you. But people really can interpret things differently. What seems clear and literal to one can seem less clear and less literal to others. This is a real possibility on Earth and among humans.
Hopefully tapu can join us and clear this up.
“Two moms” is ambiguous. When I read that, I did think “probably in a lesbian relationship”, but I couldn’t be 100% sure. And that’s why it made sense to ask for clarification. It could have been “biological mom and stepmom” or “biological mom and adoptive mom”.
Agreed–I wondered as well. And I do think there are ways to discuss the question without resorting to homophobic attacks; I think some people did so, including kanicbird. The issue is not discussing whether it’s a lesbian relationship or a stepmom/biomom situation. The issue isn’t suggesting that a holiday without one parent taking extra duty might be tricky.
The issue is suggesting that the family structure, mentioned to clarify that both parents are affected directly, may then be attacked directly as an inferior family structure in the way that homophobic attacks have been occurring for decades or longer.
Again, if she’d mentioned doing something at synagogue, that would not open the door to antisemitic rants. If she’d mentioned that her child was mixed-race, racist attacks on her child’s intelligence wouldn’t be all right. Just because something has been mentioned doesn’t suddenly make bigoted attacks on her acceptable.
I’m getting a little lost in this discussion.
Keeping in mind that this is ATMB and that discussions here should be about the message board, are there still issues here with the moderation of the board or with the rules as they are written and and being enforced? If so, could someone clearly state what they think those issues are?
I was wondering if homophobia got the same treatment as others forms of bigotry and, if not, whether moderators should come down on it more since it has the potential to threadshit* and attack members of the board without justification. If the consensus among moderators is that homophobia gets the same treatment as other forms of bigotry and/or that moderators should not come down on it more than they currently are, then this thread has no raison d’être any longer.
*With the understanding that GD and the Pit give more latitude.
I note there’s been some disagreement about how to interpret my intentions in mentioning that Asa has lesbian parents, both in the OP and in a later post. It has come to my attention that I can clear this up.
In the OP, I stated, “He has two moms, btw.” I noted this to pre-empt having to establish and clarify it repeatedly if people made assumptions and started saying things like, “Why didn’t his dad do something to remind him, etc.” The “btw” helps, I think, to show the emphasis I was trying/not trying to give the fact. It was purely informational, not a defining factor in the situation.
A few posts later, someone asks me to clarify what I mean by having “two moms.” The poster provides me with some alternate interpretations of what I said. I hadn’t thought to be more specific in the OP because in my world that’s an established way of indicating lesbian parents. When I saw it could be interpreted otherwise, I clarified our family situation.
At no point was I indicating that people should weigh in on whether that aspect of our family could be the core reason for the situation I was asking about.
Fine if people wanted to help me explore that, though. But in the feedback from Urban Redneck, and a few others, the message was not that this could be a factor, but rather that it was the core problem. That by being lesbian parents, we were “doing it wrong” from the start and couldn’t really expect anything but negative experiences for our son or for us.
I hope this helps. ~tapu (With thanks to those who asked me to clarify my intentions.)
Thank you!
Thanks, but AFAICT only iiandyiii didn’t understand that you mean what you said you meant.
That kind of permission isn’t necessary. As mentioned, I don’t think it is possible on the SDMB to start a thread asking for advice but rule out opinions you don’t want to hear.
Regards,
Shodan