# Should Howard Dean, the DNC chairman, be censured for this statement? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250 "2005-02-15T20:47:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/1 "2005-02-15T20:47:54Z")
T[he Washington Post:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17718-2005Feb11.html) > [@](#): > > (snip…) > > Then he bolts next door to see the African American caucus. > > (Snip) > > He surveys the crowd of 150 crammed into the room. “You think the RNC could get this many people of color into a single room?” he marvels. “Maybe if they got the hotel staff in there.” :eek: I am not a person of color but I can’t help but think of what happened to Trent Lott after he made his comments back in 2002. Maybe I’m being a knee-jerk member of the offenderati but that comment really doesn’t sit well with me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/2 "2005-02-15T21:01:36Z")
Meh… It was a stupid joke. The fact of the matter is, Bush '04 did better among Blacks than Bush '00, by something like 11% to 9%. Small potatoes still, but not the direction the Democrats are used to seeing. And, IIRC, Bush did considerably better among Hispanics-- ie, a larger gain. ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/3 "2005-02-15T21:07:44Z")
No, he is simply trying to make a case for the immediate implementation of universal healthcare. Ideally, he should have been rushed to a nearby hospital for his acute foot-in-mouth disease. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/4 "2005-02-15T21:21:23Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I am not a person of color but I can’t help but think of what happened to Trent Lott after he made his comments back in 2002. Maybe I’m being a knee-jerk member of the offenderati but that comment really doesn’t sit well with me. I can’t imagine why – the statement was offensive to the GOP (as he intended), not to African-Americans. Now, if he had said that the hotel staff was _exclusively_ (or primarily) staffed by African-Americans, there’d be something to apologize for. But he didn’t, so there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/5 "2005-02-15T21:21:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t help but think of what happened to Trent Lott after he made his comments back in 2002. I must have missed where Dean remarked (to this Democratic caucus) that the country would have been better off if 54 years earlier the country would have voted in as president a man who bolted the Democratic Party for the express purpose of promoting and maintaining a segregated United States. Dean’s comment can be criticized as taking the black vote for granted, but even with the gains in the Republican vote among blacks, (and the point that blacks’ attitudes on cultural and religious issues are closer to the attitudes of the religious wing of the Republican Party), Dean’s comment is probably still somewhat accurate, today. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/6 "2005-02-15T21:22:04Z")
Who’d deliver the censure? Robert Byrd? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/7 "2005-02-15T21:23:39Z")
What **tomndebb** said. Comparing this to Trent Lott’s comments is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/8 "2005-02-15T21:30:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I must have missed where Dean remarked (to this Democratic caucus) that the country would have been better off if 54 years earlier the country would have voted in as president a man who bolted the Democratic Party for the express purpose of promoting and maintaining a segregated United States. Yeah, it seems you must’ve missed the part where I said that too. Oh wait, I didn’t. Of course, neither did Trent Lott. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/9 "2005-02-15T21:33:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Dean’s comment can be criticized as taking the black vote for granted… It’s not that part that’s offensive. It’s the stereotyping of the low-paid, servile hotel staff as sufficiently overwhelmingly black to recreate such a scene that’s offensive. And yeah, if a Republican said it he’d be excoriated. The ironic reality, of course, is that the easiest way for President Bush to get a large number of people of color in a single room is to call a Cabinet meeting. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/10 "2005-02-15T21:38:02Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Yeah, it seems you must’ve missed the part where I said that too. Oh wait, I didn’t. > Of course, neither did Trent Lott. :dubious: Yes, he did. That’s what wishing Strom Thurmond had won the presidency in 1948 amounts to. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/11 "2005-02-15T21:42:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Yes, he did. That’s what wishing Strom Thurmond had won the presidency in 1948 amounts to. You can say one thing… and [Lott can say the opposite.](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/16/lott.controversy/) > [@](#): > > Noting that Mississippi was one of four states to vote for Thurmond as the candidate for the breakaway Dixiecrats in 1948, he said, “We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either.” > > \*\*Asked what he meant by “all these problems,” Lott told BET that he was referring to other parts of Thurmond’s conservative political philosophy, not his support for racial segregation, which was the centerpiece of Dixiecrat campaign. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/12 "2005-02-15T21:46:06Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > You can say one thing… and [Lott can say the opposite.](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/16/lott.controversy/) And you can believe him as much as you want to. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/13 "2005-02-15T21:54:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And you can believe him as much as you want to. 😛 And you’re welcome to bring facts to the debate instead of baseless opinions and speculations. Don’t get me wrong, I opine Trent Lott to be a despicable person, but I don’t have any facts of his intentions meaning to retain a segregationist US. And neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/14 "2005-02-15T22:00:29Z")
I’m so tired of people looking for reasons to be outraged. You’d think we had a shortage of it or something. > [@manhattan](#): > > It’s not that part that’s offensive. It’s the stereotyping of the low-paid, servile hotel staff as sufficiently overwhelmingly black to recreate such a scene that’s offensive. I’m detecting the overtones of a slavery reference here, and I think that’s kind of gross. > [@](#): > > And yeah, if a Republican said it he’d be excoriated. In this context, no, I don’t think he would. > [@](#): > > The ironic reality, of course, is that the easiest way for President Bush to get a large number of people of color in a single room is to call a Cabinet meeting. In this case a large number of people equals what, four? I’m not knocking the inclusiveness of his Cabinet, I just think you’ve picked a poor example. 😉 **stpauler** , your own quote says that “racial segregation… was a centerpiece of the Dixiecrat’s campaign.” That may not be what Lott was thinking, but it sure as hell is what he SAID. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/15 "2005-02-15T22:01:20Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I must have missed where Dean remarked (to this Democratic caucus) that the country would have been better off if 54 years earlier the country would have voted in as president a man who bolted the Democratic Party for the express purpose of promoting and maintaining a segregated United States. Dean said that right after Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet, and right before Kerry described terrorism as “a nuisance”. Remember? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/16 "2005-02-15T22:10:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **stpauler** , your own quote says that “racial segregation… was a centerpiece of the Dixiecrat’s campaign.” That may not be what Lott was thinking, but it sure as hell is what he SAID. Yeah. And he also said that’s NOT what he was referring to. Of course, when the whole he made his infamous quote, he did not mention racial segregation either. But if you’re cool with taking it out of context, feel free to bend the words as you see fit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/17 "2005-02-15T22:33:48Z")
I think the best way to censure, in all but a few extreme cases, is with publicity. So let the conservatives spread Howard Dean’s words far and wide! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/18 "2005-02-15T22:34:45Z")
**stpauler** , regardless what Lott meant, what he said was that the country would have been better off if Thurmond had been elected president. Thurmond’s primary campaign point, the one on which he broke from the Democrats, was the defense of segregation. So Lott was excoriated for his statement, not for his intention. Nothing in Dean’s statement equates to that. Even **manhattan** ’s attempt to interject “servile” into Dean’s statement fails, because Dean made no mention of servility or class. Is anyone here going to claim that a very large percentage of a hotel staff in Washington is _not_ black? Did Dean make a statement that implied a certain racism within the Republican demographic? I would say he did. Clearly, the Republicans have a right to challenge his implication. However, while Secretary Rice can certainly point out that she does not bus tables, there is nothing in the observation that Dean made that can _currently_ be challenged _on the numbers_. The Congressional Black Caucus has had (IIRC) a single black member and the number of “black” membership groups within the Republican party is miniscule. Dean said that the ([implied] rich white [/implied]) Republicans could not assemble a grass roots support group in the Washington area that could provide 150 attendees at a meeting without drafting the (black members of the) hotel staff to join. That does not imply that the blacks are “servile” or that there is anything wrong with blacks who join the Republicans; it states that the numbers of black Republicans are few. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/19 "2005-02-15T22:40:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Congressional Black Caucus has had (IIRC) a single black member Actually, the CBC has had three our four black memebers, perhaps more. They have had (I believe) a single Republican member. yeeesh ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250/20 "2005-02-15T22:45:04Z")
Let’s not forget that Lott was not really torn down for what he said. Plenty of other Repubilcans have said far more offensive things and survived unscathed. The fact is that the Powers That Be wanted Lott out for whatever reason, and he gave them an excuse. As for this? Meh. Probably not the smartest thing Dean ever said, but a silly thing to get whipped up about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-howard-dean-the-dnc-chairman-be-censured-for-this-statement/290250.md?page=2)