# Should I, a male, try to join 'Curves' - a female-only exercise club? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915 "2002-12-06T14:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/41 "2002-12-11T15:08:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*No, you should not join. > > And I question your motives for wanting to join a womens group.\*\* > > OP here. (Sorry about my formatting limitations. The **bolded** words are Susanann’s comments, the normal text is mine.) > > After hearing what the set-up is like at Curves, I indeed do not want to join. > > Pity though, because the Curves franchise was very convenient for me. And that convenience factor was my primary motive … you are certainly free to question that, if you choose to do so. > > A secondary motivation was to see what the staff reaction would be. > > And finally, once I considered appoaching Curves, I thought about the issues it might raise regarding equal opportunity, affirmative action, fairness, the legal basis for disrimination, etc. … and so I posted this question. > > \*\*Womens only organizations, clubs, etc, are women only for specific legitimate reasons. \*\* > > What are “Womens”? 🙂 > > \*\*Most of the equipment and excercize options there ARE geared towards women, and our own curves. > > Why do you want to join? do you want better thighs, a better bottom, and better firmer looking breasts?\*\* > > Yes. Yes. And yes, I do want to firm up my delts and pecs, too. > > **Why do you think there is a such a big difference in how our society treats a female who is a tomboy, and male who is a sissy boy?** > > Tomboy is a very outdated term, and offensive to many feminists. Perhaps we could use the term “athlete” instead. > > And I want to increase my exercise regimen so people stop calling me a sissy boy! > > \*\*Affirmative action, equal rights laws, equal opportunity laws, anti-discrimination laws, etc. were not designed, nor intended by anyone, to allow white males do more. \*\* They were designed to bring about parity. Part of the formula to bring about parity was to give several historically oppressed groups temporary advantages to allow them to catch up. Once parity is achieved (or a reasonable approximation thereof), what should these laws then do? Maintain parity, I say. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/42 "2002-12-11T21:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > > And I question your motives for wanting to join a mens group. > > Mens only organizations, clubs, etc, are men only for specific legitimate reasons. > > Most of the equipment and excercize options there ARE geared towards men, and our own muscles. > > Our society says that there is something very unladylike about any female that wants to join any mens group/activity, or to do anything masuline. There are very strict limits and social mores on what females in our society are permitted to do, or join, or what clothes or colors(pink and purple) females can wear, etc. > > \*\* I have taken the liberty of taking your quote, and substituting the opposite gender. Tell me it doesn’t sound damn silly. Then ponder this for a minute. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/43 "2002-12-11T22:04:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*I have taken the liberty of taking your quote, and substituting the opposite gender. Tell me it doesn’t sound damn silly. Then ponder this for a minute. Get it? \*\* I get it, but do you? Your quote is ancient history. I am well aware of the history of the womens movement, and we broke thru nearly every barrier that we wanted to. Your changing of the gender was true at one time, but now we have surpassed the male in what we can do. We can join the army(and worry about being drafted), be a cop, vote, hold office, get credit cards, mortgages, drive cars, trucks and busses , carry a gun, smoke, go into saloons, ride horses astride, work or stay at home, go to college(there are more women in college now than males) , get the house, alimony and custody of the children, we have the final say on having sex or not, children or not, we can wear pants or skirts, pretty dresses or hunting clothes, play with dolls or toy trucks, wear any color we want, have short hair or long, and any color, drive any color car or truck that we want, we can hunt, fish, play ice hockey, soccer, or sew, join almost any club or organization that we want, and no one questions our femininity. Get it? It is not silly. Times have changed. Live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/44 "2002-12-11T22:07:35Z")
I cant edit this thing. I meant : We can join the army(and yet NOT worry about being drafted), ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/45 "2002-12-11T22:15:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*I get it, but do you? > > Your quote is ancient history. > > ] It’s your quote, actually. And I really don’t think you do “get it”. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/46 "2002-12-11T23:36:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Susanann_ > **but now we have surpassed the male in what we can do.** Assuming, arguendo, that this statement is correct, would you support affirmative action for American males? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/47 "2002-12-12T00:21:56Z")
\*\*suranyi[/], I have no doubt they exist. This simply means no one has yet done what the OP postulated. However, in light of the decisions of the California Supreme Court interpreting the Unruh act, I have no doubt of the outcome of such litigation, should it ever occur. I once thought of filing such a suit on my own behalf (there was a women’s only gym club in Salinas when I was working there). But a healthy dose of common sense took over, as I realized that, just because a thing can be doesn’t mean it should be. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/48 "2002-12-12T03:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > \*\*Assuming, arguendo, that this statement is correct, would you support affirmative action for American males? \*\* Why? The american male gave women affirmative action status, even though women outnumber men. Oh yeah, how did I forget this one, women can also laugh or cry. Dont get me wrong, I would like men to be equal , but they dont want it, and they will never do anything that might be construed by others as being “feminine”. We, on the other hand, have no problem doing everything and anything that is considered either masculine or feminine. I would NEVER support affirmative action for males, unless they sincerely wanted to be equal, and believed that men and women are equal human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Jonno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@Jonno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonno)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/49 "2002-12-12T05:14:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > > Oh yeah, how did I forget this one, women can also laugh or cry. I laugh, and even cry now and then. And I’m a man. How…scandalous. > [@](#): > > Dont get me wrong, **I would like men to be equal , but they dont want it, and they will never do anything that might be construed by others as being “feminine”.** We, on the other hand, have no problem doing everything and anything that is considered either masculine or feminine. _Bolding mine_ Remind me to hire you next time I need my house painted. With that big brush you use it won’t take any time at all. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/50 "2002-12-12T06:17:32Z")
The way I see it, both sexes sometimes prefer to be with only members of the same sex. This is understandable, since the other sex can be such a bunch of dipshits. And sometimes you just don’t want to have to put on your social face or whatever. But I think what the OP is getting at is that there’s a double standard here. A woman’s need to exercise with only other women is legitimate, and a man’s need to be able to golf with other men is not. He’s choosing to approach the problem by forcing women to open their clubs. I’d rather just say why not let the sexes have some occasional privacy from each other? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/51 "2002-12-12T06:47:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*I have taken the liberty of taking your quote, and substituting the opposite gender. Tell me it doesn’t sound damn silly. Then ponder this for a minute. Get it? \*\* Just a FYI, I believe that you can be banned from the boards for doing that, so you probably shouldn’t do it again. There may be a sticky somewhere about it still. > [@](#): > > - Orginally posted by Spiff\* > I was, however, aware of the fact that the raison d’etre of Curves is to allow women the freedom to exercise in an enviroment where they are allowed to ‘glow’ without feeling self-conscious about it. I doubt you _intend_ to come off sounding this way, but this part of your response sounds like you’re at least partially motivated to try to join to make the women feel uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/52 "2002-12-12T14:15:53Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] DrDeth, do not quote a poster and alter the quote so that it looks as if the poster said somehting s/he did not say. Please read the posting rules here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&threadid=106617](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&threadid=106617) > [@](#): > > Falsely attributing a quote to another user, or modifying another’s post in order to cast him/her in a bad light, even if meant in jest, is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/53 "2002-12-12T17:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*The american male gave women affirmative action status, even though women outnumber men. > > Oh yeah, how did I forget this one, women can also laugh or cry. > > Dont get me wrong, I would like men to be equal , but they dont want it, and they will never do anything that might be construed by others as being “feminine”. We, on the other hand, have no problem doing everything and anything that is considered either masculine or feminine. > > I would NEVER support affirmative action for males, unless they sincerely wanted to be equal, and believed that men and women are equal human beings. \*\* I’m sorry, but I simply can’t follow what it is you’re trying to say. Do you mean that men are already equal or that men want to be inferior or that, perhaps, men are inherently inferior but think they are superior or do you mean something else entirely? I wonder if **Mandelstam** does vanity searches. I think she’d be _really_ interested to meet you. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/54 "2002-12-12T17:21:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*I doubt you _intend_ to come off sounding this way, but this part of your response sounds like you’re at least partially motivated to try to join to make the women feel uncomfortable. \*\* One of my motivations for this little thought experiment (for that all this is at the moment) was to see how the front desk staff would react. But I guess there’s a small part of me who would also want to see how the clientele would react. As I stated in a previous post, I really am a sissy boy. Not overly tall or bulked up by any means. Pleasant, friendly demeaner (no creepy vibes), so I don’t think I’d be threatening to the “Curves” clients. But maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/55 "2002-12-12T17:36:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*One of my motivations for this little thought experiment (for that all this is at the moment) was to see how the front desk staff would react. \*\* **Spiff** , As a practical experiment in gender politics, why don’t you walk over there on your lunch break and ask for a brochure? You might even go so far as to mention that you (as opposed to a wife/girlfriend) are thinking of joining. This won’t bother the clientele, but it will let us all know how the management of this club views the situation. I’d bet there is even something about male membership in the brochure. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/56 "2002-12-12T20:34:05Z")
A tough call all around. Women’s-only space is perfectly legitimate, as is men’s-only space (the GLBT community has been working out these issue for years). The two concerns I see here are the matter of “public accommodations” (in which case all people should have access to it, but, as pointed out, can be hotly contested as to what actually makes it public); and the matter of allowing a traditionally repressed minority (for lack of a better term) to carve out space for themselves without their oppressors (again, for lack of a better term) once again getting control; i.e., in a male-dominated society where women may feel like second class citizens, in an effort to strengthen their social position, do they have a right to maintain space solely for themselves outside what that society accepts as normative? I see reflections of this in the gay community as well. Whether it’s right or wrong is the debate at hand. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/57 "2002-12-12T21:24:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Originally posted by DrDeth > I have taken the liberty of taking your quote, and substituting the opposite gender. Tell me it doesn’t sound damn silly. Then ponder this for a minute. Get it? > Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*Just a FYI, I believe that you can be banned from the boards for doing that, so you probably shouldn’t do it again. There may be a sticky somewhere about it still. > . \*\* I dont mind at all, and I am not complaining. I thought he was pretty clear what he did in switching male to female. No problem here with what he did. Thanks for pointing that out though(changing a quote), I did not know you are prohibited from doing that. All he did was change a current day quote, to a true hundred year old quote. Women used to be banned from everything, and not allowed to do everything, now it is the mens turn , and since it is the mans choice in most cases to be less free, it will never change . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/58 "2002-12-12T22:12:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*\*[Moderator Hat ON] > > DrDeth, do not quote a poster and alter the quote so that it looks as if the poster said somehting s/he did not say. > > [Moderator Hat OFF] \*\* Thank you- I thought I had made it quite clear I had modified their words, thus in no way was I making it look like she said something she did not say. How would I do something like this “legally”? Remove the “quotes”? However, I do apologize for this inadvertant violation. And Susanann- thanks for your support. It is nice to see someone who is adult enough to realize that just becuase someone disagrees with you, they are not nessesarily a bad person. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/59 "2002-12-12T22:41:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*Thank you- I thought I had made it quite clear I had modified their words, thus in no way was I making it look like she said something she did not say. How would I do something like this “legally”? Remove the “quotes”? However, I do apologize for this inadvertant violation. > > And Susanann- thanks for your support. It is nice to see someone who is adult enough to realize that just becuase someone disagrees with you, they are not nessesarily a bad person. > 🆒 \*\* You have my full support if any moderator complains. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915/60 "2002-12-13T06:31:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*I dont mind at all, and I am not complaining. I thought he was pretty clear what he did in switching male to female. No problem here with what he did. > \*\* It doesn’t matter if you mind or not. People have been banned in the past for doing that, even though the person whose quotes had been changed also didn’t mind. I thought it would be better to point it out before he did it again and was banned over something silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-a-male-try-to-join-curves-a-female-only-exercise-club/140915.md?page=4)