# Should I become a citizen of another country? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673 "2016-11-21T20:09:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/21 "2016-11-22T02:00:23Z")
A woman I know was born in Argentina but was of Italian origin. Her son applied for, and received, Italian citizenship and was able to work anywhere in the EU. The woman herself could not because she had taken out Canadian citizenship, which caused loss of the Italian citizenship. Her son was not affected because, having been born here, he was Canadian by birth and therefore had not sworn allegiance to Canada. So it is worth the effort. I am a dual citizen. I was seriously thinking of moving to the US, near one of my kids, but have put that on hold for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/22 "2016-11-22T09:15:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you have citizenship from any EU country then you can live and work in any other EU country. If you ever wanted to spend a couple of years abroad that’s a huge advantage. And based on that branch of my family which is still Italian after some 150 years of living in Spain, keeping that nationality and its benefits for your descendants even though they won’t be living in the country isn’t particularly onerous. Italy abolished the draft ten years ago and in general doesn’t require its citizens residing abroad to pay Italian taxes. For someone who is a resident of the US for tax purposes and who has income from the US and Italy, it’s a lot easier to report all income in the US and if the Italians ask show proof that you filed in the US, than to file in both countries. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/23 "2016-11-22T09:42:45Z")
This is not immediately relevant to the prospect of taking up Italian citizenship, but if you do ever consider moving to Europe, you should be aware that being a US citizen creates some problems. The US is the only major nation that continues to tax its citizens on income from all sources if they are resident abroad. This means, at best, the administrative annoyance of filing two sets of taxes with completely different rules and requirements. At worst you may even be exposed to double taxation on some of your income - major nations have tax treaties intended to prevent this, but the rules are arcane. Italian citizenship would obviously facilitate you living and working in Europe, but it would not take you out of the US tax system unless you went through the difficult process of actually renouncing US citizenship. [FATCA](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca) is now causing even greater headaches for US citizens living abroad. It is heavy-handed legislation, intended to address tax evasion, that imposes stringent reporting requirements upon foreign banks with US-owned accounts. The unforeseen consequence is that many banks in Europe will not open accounts for US citizens, creating considerable difficulty for US ex-pats. > **[Why expat Americans are giving up their passports](https://www.bbc.com/news/35383435)** > > More Americans are renouncing their US citizenship because of the increasing pressures of complying with US tax laws - even though they do not live in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/24 "2016-11-22T09:53:57Z")
ETA: Just to be clear - from a tax perspective there’s no drawback to being a dual Italian citizen, so far as I know; but that alone does not solve the taxation complications for a US citizen abroad. ---
**Author:** ![femmejean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/0ea827/32.png) [@femmejean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/femmejean)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/25 "2016-11-22T10:16:44Z")
Wouldn’t it be easier to become a citizen of Ireland? AFAIK, the citizenship laws are quite lax compared to other EU countries (don’t have to know Irish, don’t have to do a test like the US, 5 year waiting period on a Stamp 4.) Even though the whether hear is pretty crap in the winter, I would say OP that you should move here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/26 "2016-11-22T13:04:45Z")
How hard is it to become a citizen of Chile? ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/27 "2016-11-22T13:25:37Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > [FATCA](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca) is now causing even greater headaches for US citizens living abroad. It is heavy-handed legislation, intended to address tax evasion, that imposes stringent reporting requirements upon foreign banks with US-owned accounts. The unforeseen consequence is that many banks in Europe will not open accounts for US citizens, creating considerable difficulty for US ex-pats. > [Why expat Americans are giving up their passports - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/35383435) FATCA is exactly the reason I gave up my US citizenship in 2015. I started working with a financial advisor to get my savings into better places to prepare for retirement. As a US citizen there were only a couple low-yielding options available with a projected annual return of 1-2%. Once I renounced US citizenship I was able to invest in a bond fund that returned 10% last year. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/28 "2016-11-22T13:43:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Actually, the US government [does officially recognize dual citizenship](https://web.archive.org/web/20121014040015/http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html). Not exactly - > [@](#): > > U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/29 "2016-11-22T14:11:05Z")
The people I’ve met who have two passports are all perfectly happy with their status. All, probably, for different reasons. Some make use of the advantage, some don’t. Personally, I’d love to have a passport from a Schengen country, so I would not be restricted to 90-day visits to Europe. I’ve never felt such a need, but I’d like to have that door open. When each country had its own immigration protocol, I spent seven months traveling Europe, which would be impossibe (legally) today. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/30 "2016-11-22T14:19:24Z")
If all you want to do is visit Italy, or Europe for that matter and don’t intend to work there you should just visit on a tourist visa which you should be able to get on arrival. Heck if you stay less than 90 days in Italy you don’t need any visa. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/31 "2016-11-22T18:56:22Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > [FATCA](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca) is now causing even greater headaches for US citizens living abroad. It is heavy-handed legislation, intended to address tax evasion, that imposes stringent reporting requirements upon foreign banks with US-owned accounts. The unforeseen consequence is that many banks in Europe will not open accounts for US citizens, creating considerable difficulty for US ex-pats. > [Why expat Americans are giving up their passports - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/35383435) Does this cause issues even if you have citizenship of the country you’re in? I’m thinking of say a hypothetical Italian person, born and raised and living in Italy who had an American dad. He’d be a US citizen because of that. Would he really have difficulty opening bank accounts, etc in the only country he’s known? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/32 "2016-11-22T21:24:15Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > Does this cause issues even if you have citizenship of the country you’re in? I’m thinking of say a hypothetical Italian person, born and raised and living in Italy who had an American dad. He’d be a US citizen because of that. Would he really have difficulty opening bank accounts, etc in the only country he’s known? Yes, it can be a problem. In order to comply with FATCA requirements the banks and other financial institutions need to determine the citizenship of their customers, even if only to confirm they are not a “US person” under the law. Some banks with few dealings in the United States or with “US person” customer chose to stop doing business that would have required them to deal with the FATCA bureaucracy. This means rejecting “US persons” as customers - no car loans, no credit cards, no mortgages, no savings accounts to anyone who is a “US person”. A customer being a dual citizen does not absolve the financial institution from FATCA requirements. This puts the banks in the role of enforcer, yet another reason they hate FATCA and view it as an extreme overreach. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/33 "2016-11-22T22:13:44Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you have citizenship from any EU country then you can live and work in any other EU country. If you ever wanted to spend a couple of years abroad that’s a huge advantage. I knew an Italian American who was able to get Italian citizenship and that was the reason. His company was willing to put him in a post in London\* he wanted and to go through the necessary rigamarole on his behalf because he wasn’t an EU national. But getting EU nationality meant not being captive to that company in the future if he wan’t to get another job there, and anyway being dependent on your employer for legal permission to work is a great way to reduce your bargaining leverage for compensation increases if you stay with them. However to add on FATCA and the related regulatory environment, US ex-pats now also often have trouble opening or maintaining financial accounts back in the US. I’ve heard ex pats say major US financial institutions have closed their accounts if they figure out they’re always being accessed online from abroad. \*before Brexit obviously, the effect of which on labor mobility from Italy to UK is yet to be determined anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/34 "2016-11-22T22:30:27Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > Does this cause issues even if you have citizenship of the country you’re in? I’m thinking of say a hypothetical Italian person, born and raised and living in Italy who had an American dad. He’d be a US citizen because of that. Would he really have difficulty opening bank accounts, etc in the only country he’s known? Yes, from the BBC article that I linked to: > [@](#): > > ‘Accidental Americans’ > Many foreign banks are taking no chances either. They are closing down accounts of anyone who might be an “accidental American”. This could be anyone with an American parent but born outside the US, or people of other nationalities born in the US - like Fabien. > “I live in France, I work in France, my life is in France. I have no link to the United States. My life as a Frenchman is in France,” Fabien tells me through an interpreter. “I don’t even speak English!” > His French father brought him to Europe when he was 18 months’ old - but because he was born in California he is a US citizen and thus subject to Fatca. > His bank demanded he either provide proof he had renounced his US citizenship, or his social security number. He had neither. Renouncing his “accidental” US citizenship is no mean feat, either. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/35 "2016-11-23T00:37:41Z")
> [@femmejean](#): > > Wouldn’t it be easier to become a citizen of Ireland? AFAIK, the citizenship laws are quite lax compared to other EU countries (don’t have to know Irish, don’t have to do a test like the US, 5 year waiting period on a Stamp 4.) > > Even though the whether hear is pretty crap in the winter, I would say OP that you should move here. I don’t think I qualify to be an Irish citizen. I was told as a child that I’m 1/16th Irish, but I can’t imagine that’s enough to get me the citizenship. I do however qualify for Italian citizenship – my mother was born in Italy of Italian parents. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/36 "2016-11-23T00:39:07Z")
Thanks all for the responses. I’ll likely wait until the new year to get serious about this, but I think I have almost all the documents needed for the first step of the process. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/37 "2016-11-23T09:58:18Z")
Some FATCA questions: > [@](#): > > I am a U.S. citizen or have lawful permanent resident (green card) status. > U.S. is my place of birth > I have a U.S. residence address or a U.S. correspondence address (including a U.S. P.O. box) > I have a U.S. telephone number(regardless of whether such number is the only telephone number associated with the account holder) > I am making, or plan to execute, instructions to pay any amounts from the account to an account maintained in the U.S. > I am associated with a power of attorney or signatory authority granted to a person with a U.S. address > I have set up an “in care of” address or a “hold mail” address that is my sole address As you can see they don’t want to take the chance of missing a US citizen or someone that should be reporting US taxes. One good thing about the Republicans gaining power is the possibility of a repeal of FATCA and the requirement to report earnings gained while living outside the US. That would put the US in line with the rest of the world where taxes are paid in the jurisdiction they are earned. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/38 "2016-11-24T00:50:18Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > . . . That would put the US in line with the rest of the world where taxes are paid in the jurisdiction they are earned. Nitpick: In the most of the rest of the world the primary rule is that taxes are paid in the jurisdiction in which the taxpayer is resident. An Irish resident, for example, is liable to Irish income tax on his worldwide income. Taxes are often also levied in the jursdiction from which the income is sourced. Bilateral tax treaties need to be negotiated between the two jurisdictions concerned if double taxation is to be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673/39 "2016-11-24T01:33:17Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Nitpick: In the most of the rest of the world the primary rule is that taxes are paid in the jurisdiction in which the taxpayer is resident. An Irish resident, for example, is liable to Irish income tax on his worldwide income. > > Taxes are often also levied in the jursdiction from which the income is sourced. Bilateral tax treaties need to be negotiated between the two jurisdictions concerned if double taxation is to be avoided. Yes. I was resident in Canada and had to pay taxes on income I earned while working in Yemen. I had to pay taxes to Yemen on the money earned there as well. If I was resident in Yemen, then I wouldn’t have had to pay taxes in Canada even though I’m Canadian. From what I understand, that is the norm for most countries depending on rules regarding what constitutes residency and double taxation, etc. If you are an American then you’d have to pay US taxes regardless of where you were resident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-become-a-citizen-of-another-country/772673.md?page=1)