# Should I buy a Tesla S? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 3, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900 "2013-09-03T16:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![daisy101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@daisy101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daisy101)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/1 "2013-09-03T16:52:04Z")
I’m in love with this car. Faster than a porsche 911, lower center of gravity than a vette, safest car in history! I live in Toronto so there’s no charging stations so that could be a down side. Anybody know anything about this or wanna tell me I’m crazy? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/2 "2013-09-03T17:02:52Z")
With the range they get, you probably don’t need a charging station anywhere but at home unless you do a lot of driving. If you are a one-car family, you might need to really consider your needs to drive more than 200 miles. For me, it’s a no brainer. I’ll get one within a year or two (or something similar) ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/3 "2013-09-03T17:08:15Z")
Teslas are a bit crazy, just like their namesake. I like the idea, but besides no charging stations (more than merely a “down side” IMHO), there’s not a dealership network and very few mechanics that know how to work on them. That’s more drama than I need in a vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/4 "2013-09-03T17:10:44Z")
I’d like to get a firm, no-BS, fandance-free answer about whether Tesla ever solved the battery longevity problem. As I understand it, a good part of the Roadster’s performance over other EVs was that it had batteries that could deliver more sustained current than could, say, the Leaf’s… but at a cost of a much shorter battery life, on the order of 300 full charge/discharge cycles. Fine for a high-performance weekend car (300 weekends is on the order of 5-6 years lifespan) but maybe not so great for a daily driver. Has anyone taken a Roadster or S past 3-400 charge cycles yet without a battery replacement? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/5 "2013-09-03T17:14:22Z")
That’s the sticking point for me, also. I don’t want to be replacing the batteries in a couple years. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/6 "2013-09-03T17:21:14Z")
I love that car, but have to admit I would be a bit hesitant about lack of charging station, but far more hesitant about not having qualified technicians to fix those “little things” that need fixin’ - and even most “normal” new cars have a little glitch or two that might need to be looked at and easily fixed - assuming the mechanic knows what he/she is doing. I am sort of surprised there is no service, whatsoever, in the entire Toronto area?! I would think at least ONE garage could supply some basic technical support, and authorized by Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![smee\_goan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@smee\_goan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smee_goan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/7 "2013-09-03T17:41:42Z")
Your not just pimping for the stock? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/8 "2013-09-03T17:43:29Z")
[http://www.teslamotors.com/yorkdale](http://www.teslamotors.com/yorkdale) Service Centre in TO; one supposedly coming to Montreal. I want a ride when you get one… Maybe you could bring it upto for the next Race the Base in Cold Lake…😃 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/9 "2013-09-03T18:03:30Z")
> [@daisy101](#): > > Faster than a porsche 911… Er, perhaps some base models like the weight-added cabriolet. But as you can see [here](http://www.zeroto60times.com/Porsche-0-60-mph-Times.html) nowhere close to most of the models and 2.9 seconds isn’t on the horizon yet. That’s going to be true of a lot of electric cars and hybrids though, blistering torque and starting power. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/10 "2013-09-03T18:17:43Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’d like to get a firm, no-BS, fandance-free answer about whether Tesla ever solved the battery longevity problem. As I understand it, a good part of the Roadster’s performance over other EVs was that it had batteries that could deliver more sustained current than could, say, the Leaf’s… but at a cost of a much shorter battery life, on the order of 300 full charge/discharge cycles. Fine for a high-performance weekend car (300 weekends is on the order of 5-6 years lifespan) but maybe not so great for a daily driver. > > Has anyone taken a Roadster or S past 3-400 charge cycles yet without a battery replacement? This is why General Motors killed the Saturn EV1, despite a legion of fanboys constantly wanking on it. Replacing the batteries would cost something like $10,000. That’s a pretty brutal repair bill to get hit with after only a few years, and the PR disaster that would come from it would be equally brutal. GM didn’t have a good answer for this, so the cars (which were only available thru leases, not for sale) were recalled after the leases ran out. It remains to be seen whether Tesla has solved this problem. Or if they’ve even seen it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/11 "2013-09-03T18:28:41Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > It remains to be seen whether Tesla has solved this problem. Or if they’ve even seen it coming. The complete lack of information addressing the problem speaks volumes to me. I recall fairly frank discussion about the limited lifespan of the Roadster battery pack; there may have even been a bit of technoswagger about the tradeoff between the blazing performance and short lifespan. Now I can’t find a word on the topic, and if there’s a firm statement about the expected longevity of the S and other “daily driver” model packs, I can’t find it. Disclosure: sold my Tesla stock earlier this year. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/12 "2013-09-03T18:29:21Z")
Teslas are getting popular in California. But Toronto is not Los Angeles. LA is full of people in bikinis enjoying the sunshine. Toronto is full of polar bears. Oh, and you all live in igloos, too. So…My question is (seriously)–how does cold weather affect a Tesla? Batteries of all types lose a lot of power in sub-zero temperatures. And when you turn on the heater, you’re probably drawing a lot of juice from the battery----and that means less range before you have to plug in again. This should be an easy thing for Tesla to research—just give a car for 2 weeks to somebody in a cold climate , and record some hard data from actual use (not theoretical data about how far you “should” be able to drive based on mathematical formulas.) But I havent seen any hard, factual data about how a Tesla handles winter weather. (Not that I pay too much attentiion… I will never be in the market for a car that costs more than my house.) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/13 "2013-09-03T18:35:00Z")
There is also the issue of reduced range in the winter. Living in Toronto, that should be of real concern to you. As a self-identified car enthusiast, I’m glad to see the proliferation of electric car technology and I am also glad to see Tesla doing well and leading the field in many respects. I’m considering buying their stock. But not the car. Not yet, and likely not for some years to come. I just don’t think the technology is at the level that gives me enough confidence to commit to ownership. Certainly not at the luxury class price point. That, and the fact that I’d miss the satisfying sound track of my V8. Yeah, it some ways I’m still a 16 year old. What of it? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/14 "2013-09-03T18:51:26Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So…My question is (seriously)–how does cold weather affect a Tesla? > Batteries of all types lose a lot of power in sub-zero temperatures. And when you turn on the heater, you’re probably drawing a lot of juice from the battery----and that means less range before you have to plug in again. We have one data point. Last winter, someone in New York took a Tesla on an extended trip (IIRC, to Connecticut or Massachusetts or thereabouts). He ran out of juice between charging stations. Anybody who knows anything about batteries knew that the cold weather probably did sap the battery faster than normal, but Tesla’s response was to shoot the messenger, accusing him of deliberately sabotaging the test drive because he took a detour to avoid bad traffic in Manhattan. So, it would seem that cold weather is a concern. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/15 "2013-09-03T18:58:37Z")
Beautiful cars, indeed. One cut me off rather forcefully in traffic yesterday. I wish only the best for the driver…the best medical care or the best funeral, whichever.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/16 "2013-09-03T19:11:22Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Beautiful cars, indeed. One cut me off rather forcefully in traffic yesterday. I wish only the best for the driver…the best medical care or the best funeral, whichever.😃 You didn’t catch last week’s article about how the S passed all the NTSHA crash tests with 5 stars, the first vehicle ever to do so. Apparently there’s a partial-angle front impact that no one has ever \*\*\*\*\*'d on before. So he wasn’t worried. You were just in his way. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/17 "2013-09-03T19:43:09Z")
It looks like the S is coming with an [8 year 125,000 mile battery warranty.](http://www.teslamotors.com/models/design) Of course what everybody is worried about is the battery losing capacity, not being out right defective. The warranty statement I’ve seen says that a capacity loss is to be expected. I’ve seen comments that claim a greater than average capacity loss is a serviceable warranty claim. If I had $80,000+ to buy a car, I’d get a Tesla S without question. That very well might not be the most logical choice, but it is the one I would make. A friend who recently bought a Chevy Volt commented that given her driving patterns she knows in the long run it would save her money to buy an efficient gas (or diesel) car for 2/3 the cost of the Volt, but that a big part of the decision was decreasing the total amount of petroleum she burned. (Start endless argument about carbon cost of batteries versus gasoline, etc.) My logic, or lack there of, is similar. I’d be buying the S because it does what I want, which is be cool and futuristic. Getting back to logic though, my worry would be that in 10 years it might not be worth much at all. The battery might be at 30% capacity, Tesla is gone so service is near impossible to find, and they can only be sold for a few thousand to hobbyists. It’s hard to predict though. In 10 years there might be a thriving aftermarket industry in rebuilding the batteries cheaply, or upgrading them to the newest battery tech. Gas might be $12/gallon so 10 year old gas powered cars can’t be given away. And if you can charge it at work, driving is free. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/18 "2013-09-03T20:16:18Z")
There are two parking spots with chargers reserved for electric cars in front of Durham College. I think I’ve only seen them used once. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/19 "2013-09-03T20:30:08Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > We have one data point. Last winter, someone in New York took a Tesla on an extended trip (IIRC, to Connecticut or Massachusetts or thereabouts). He ran out of juice between charging stations. Anybody who knows anything about batteries knew that the cold weather probably did sap the battery faster than normal, but Tesla’s response was to shoot the messenger, accusing him of deliberately sabotaging the test drive because he took a detour to avoid bad traffic in Manhattan. > > So, it would seem that cold weather is a concern. John M Broder, a journalist with The New York Times. [Here](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html) is his original article. And [here](http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/problems-with-precision-and-judgment-but-not-integrity-in-tesla-test/) is the commentary from the Public Editor (i.e. ombudsman) for the Times, after the brouhaha that resulted from the original article. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900/20 "2013-09-03T20:42:01Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So…My question is (seriously)–how does cold weather affect a Tesla? > Batteries of all types lose a lot of power in sub-zero temperatures. And when you turn on the heater, you’re probably drawing a lot of juice from the battery----and that means less range before you have to plug in again. I don’t know specifically how the Tesla fares in cold weather, but electrochemical batteries tend to perform poorly in the cold (except thermal or ordnance batteries which get very hot, but these are one-time-use devices which often rupture once they are used). A general rule of thumb is that chemical reactions near room temperature the reaction rate (and thus power output) doubles for every 10 °C increase in temperature. So having great power output at 30 °C means pretty much fuck all at -10 °C where you are getting ~13% of the power output. That is like if your 150 bhp sedan started delivering 20 bhp once it dips below freezing. I’ve ridden in (but not driven) a Tesla S. The torque and takeoff acceleration is amazing. The handling is world class. The fit and finish is good (as good as any production vehicle I’ve been in, but not custom build grade). The “iPad” like control console is kind of annoying and not really very ergonomic but it looks cool. The seats are very comfortable (at least the front seats; I didn’t climb in back.) The range is impressive by the standards of an electric vehicle but mediocre compared to the most gas guzzling car, and the time to full recharge and battery replacement costs are onerous. It isn’t as much of a toy as the Roadster, and if you wanted a runabout commuter car and don’t mind spending twice what it would cost you to get a comparable near-luxury sedan like a Maxima or Avalon (or can take advantage of enough tax incentives to offload $15k to $20k of cost onto the hapless taxpayers) it would make a fine second vehicle. But don’t be under the impression that you are saving the planet, though; unless you are charging it from your home solar grid, the extra electrical energy beyond normal household demand that is going into the car is being generated by natural gas and coal. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-buy-a-tesla-s/667900.md?page=2)