# Should I date him? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127 "2009-08-12T00:54:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/61 "2009-08-12T18:08:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Incidentally, I’m getting the impression that you’ve more or less made up your mind to meet him already. True? No, I’ve not made up my mind yet. We have made the plans, but I could tell him that I’ve decided against it. I know it would make him very sad. I think what I should do is what people have suggested, make it clear that if we meet, it is not a date. I think that’s what I should do. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/62 "2009-08-12T18:11:30Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > \ I hate that he cant’ experience a loving, long term relationship. My feelings for him are a mix of love and pity, I think. He deserves so much more. \ Not “can’t” - “doesn’t.” Like I said earlier, there are treatments for social anxiety that he could try if it was important to him to overcome it and get on with his life. Pity is no basis for a healthy relationship. If you are sure you have no future with this guy already, meeting him would be a mistake. I change my advice to keep on as you have been going, but try to wean him off of you as his only romantic interest. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/63 "2009-08-12T18:11:58Z")
The only thing I have to add to the near-unanimous chorus of “Oh, hells no” is that if you really are considering this person as a viable prospect, you yourself need to **get off the Internet** (and ditch your ten-year internet penpals–friend, to me at least, indicates that there has been at least an IRL meeting before) and start meeting real live people, in the flesh, who lead adult lives. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/64 "2009-08-12T18:17:04Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I think that’s what I should do. I think you should do that too. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/65 "2009-08-12T18:18:47Z")
> [@Charger](#): > > With all of those who seem to reel back in horror at the notion of being a virgin until marriage, it is a perfectly legitimate lifestyle choice and does not automatically make someone into a religious fanatic or a pathetic loser. You may be reading too much judgement into the comments. Wanting sex before marriage is the default assumption for most of us. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t accept waiting until marriage (or forever) as a legitimate and non-loserish choice. We just figure someone isn’t waiting on purpose until told otherwise. Perhaps they meant something more like this: “A guy who is a virgin at 40 is a pathetic loser _unless_ he has made a conscious choice to remain a virgin.” And as a corollary, “A person who has made the conscious choice to remain a virgin until marriage has views and attitudes about sex and marriage which are so far removed from my own as to make it unlikely that we would be compatible.” ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/66 "2009-08-12T18:43:32Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > No, I’ve not made up my mind yet. We have made the plans, but I could tell him that I’ve decided against it. I know it would make him very sad. I think what I should do is what people have suggested, make it clear that if we meet, it is not a date. You can make it as clear as you want that it’s not a date, but it will be. To him. And it’s a date to you too. You just want the option of rejecting him romantically without feeling like too much of a jerk. You want to be able to say “oh, he knew it wasn’t a date, so I’m not culpable for any of his disappointment that I wasn’t interested in him romantically.” It’s a shitty thing to do. I should know. I’ve done it. Most of us probably have in one way or another. He might be sad if you cancel the plans. He’ll be fucking DEVASTATED if you actually meet him and say “no thanks.” He’s supported you through thick and thin. You owe it to him to NOT toy with his feelings any more than you already have. Come on, you’re old enough to be over this “la la la it’s not a date we’re just friends la la la” stuff. \*Especially \*if you’ve discussed your mutual feelings and came close to having cybersex! You’re already romantically involved. You can’t un-ring that proverbial bell. I may be in the minority here, but I don’t think you should meet him at all. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/67 "2009-08-12T20:57:30Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I may be in the minority here, but I don’t think you should meet him at all. I heartily concur with **Green Bean** ’s entire post. ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/68 "2009-08-12T22:11:53Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Perhaps they meant something more like this: “A guy who is a virgin at 40 is a pathetic loser _unless_ he has made a conscious choice to remain a virgin.” > > And as a corollary, “A person who has made the conscious choice to remain a virgin until marriage has views and attitudes about sex and marriage which are so far removed from my own as to make it unlikely that we would be compatible.” I do wish more posters had that level of clarification when it comes to such “controversial” issues. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No job? 40 year old virgin? Lives with his mom? “Social anxiety?” Family of hoarders? Fixated for 10 years on an cyber GF who he’s never met? Yeah, that sounds like a real winner. See how this reads like a list of _flaws_, giving the feeling that each one listed is a reason to run for the hills at the sight of this man? No job? 40 year old virgin? Leprosy? Keeps hostages chained in his garage? Chronic halitosis? Tattoos depicting ritualistic human sacrifice? > [@Cazzle](#): > > I’m in my early thirties and there’s no way I’d get involved with a virgin. At this stage of my life, I feel like I’m past all that. To me, it’s not so much the lack of sexual experience. It’s more that it means he’s almost certainly never been in a long-term serious relationship and that means he has no practice or experience in the day-to-day function of a relationship. And this implies that the virginity lifestyle leaves one excluded from “serious relationships.” Maybe it’s not even a choice and some of us are genetically predisposed to wait until marriage, so please don’t judge us for this lifestyle of ours. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Baby\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@Baby\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baby_Driver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/69 "2009-08-12T22:21:06Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Maybe I should stop making it a big deal in my mind and just meet as friends only. That’s sort of hard though, because I do have feelings for him and we have discussed our mutual feelings. Also, it’s been a while for me without sex and I’m really very horny. Mind you, sex with a 100% virgin is hardly going to be earth moving. Maybe I just need to invest in a good vibrator. Friends only seems like the way to go. Meeting in person can provide some resolution, turning “maybes” to “definitely not” or “why the hell not?”. It doesn’t sound very promising. I think the observations other Dopers put forward that you’re in a heady position and that there’s a big power imbalance are spot on. OTOH, I don’t want to shoot holes in what could be a good relationship and an uplifting experience for a socially awkward person who may have a lot of unrealized potential. I don’t know how soon you were thinking of initiating sex, but if it’s your horniness dictating the pace on that front, you **really** should find a different partner. I mean, the sex will be bad - probably awful - for at least the first several times. By and large, the first couple sexual experiences\* suck, and this all when you’re young and nubile and expected to experiment. Think of how much more awkward and nerve-wracking when you’re holding hands for the first time at forty. I’d strongly warn against having sex unless you’re planning on continuing to have sex a number of times after the first experience, and you’re probably only going to want to commit to that if you’re planning on a long-term relationship. \*Except for those experienced within a loving, trusting relationship. The merciful blindness of love covers a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/70 "2009-08-12T22:32:32Z")
> [@Charger](#): > > I do wish more posters had that level of clarification when it comes to such “controversial” issues. > See how this reads like a list of _flaws_, giving the feeling that each one listed is a reason to run for the hills at the sight of this man? > > No job? 40 year old virgin? Leprosy? Keeps hostages chained in his garage? Chronic halitosis? Tattoos depicting ritualistic human sacrifice? > > And this implies that the virginity lifestyle leaves one excluded from “serious relationships.” Maybe it’s not even a choice and some of us are genetically predisposed to wait until marriage, so please don’t judge us for this lifestyle of ours. 😃 In my opinion, a serious, adult relationship requires sex. Without sex, it’s just high school. I also find it interesting that those who allege to be virgins by choice are indignant about being judged while simultaneously trying to claim a moral high ground for waiting until marriage. If you’re a virgin for moral reasons, then you’re judging everyone who doesn’t wait for marriage as being immoral. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/71 "2009-08-12T22:37:37Z")
> [@Baby\_Driver](#): > > I mean, the sex will be bad - probably awful - for at least the first several times. Oh, I am well aware of that. 🙂 Even though I talk about having a sexual encounter with him, I would never have sex with someone I just met. I’ve never had a one-night stand and have only had about a dozen sexual partners. I think I’ve decided though that I will meet up with him to hang out with for a couple of day, but only as friends. I think that, even if there was a spark there, I still would not engage in sexual activity with him right away. But I would give him a hug and a kiss on the cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Baby\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@Baby\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baby_Driver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/72 "2009-08-12T22:38:37Z")
I missed the edit window, but after reading **Green Bean** ’s post #66 I change my mind. I posted before: > [@Baby\_Driver](#): > > Meeting in person can provide some resolution, turning “maybes” to “definitely not” or “why the hell not?”. The thing is, do you _really_ need that confirmation? It’s rather low-risk on your end for you to meet up with him in the “friends only” or “potential date” scenario; you’re long distance, and you can shrug and walk away if you’re not blown away…and I think you know that you’re the one who will be doing that. That’s the most probable outcome. If it doesn’t start now, it will after the first meeting, or a couple months down the road. It’s too hard to sustain this relationship romantically unless you both REALLY want to. ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/73 "2009-08-12T23:03:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I also find it interesting that those who allege to be virgins by choice are indignant about being judged while simultaneously trying to claim a moral high ground for waiting until marriage. If you’re a virgin for moral reasons, then you’re judging everyone who doesn’t wait for marriage as being immoral. I’m sorry if I implied some kind of moral superiority, I didn’t mean to. I recognize that it is a lifestyle choice of which both sides have difficulty “getting” the other. This issue is important enough to people that two people of differing perspectives would likely be romantically incompatible. That said, the OP listed his virginity as a factor in the decision to meet this man. So, to her, it certainly matters. And, regardless of her opinion on the issue of virginity-until-marriage, she has been married, so there is still the issue of her experience and his lack thereof. And I agree that a first sexual experience would be a bit awkward, much like I would expect all of her interactions with him to be. What raises an eyebrow is mostly his inexperience in **all** of life, and I get that from most of this thread. He sounds like one who needs a lot of work and that should come from a friend, not a “girlfriend.” I bet we all pretty much agree on that. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/74 "2009-08-12T23:26:14Z")
> [@Charger](#): > > And this implies that the virginity lifestyle leaves one excluded from “serious relationships.” Maybe it’s not even a choice and some of us are genetically predisposed to wait until marriage, so please don’t judge us for this lifestyle of ours. 😃 I want to chime in to agree with the crowd that considers this man’s virginity an important aspect in taking him serious as a potential partner. Having an adult relationship with all the emotional complexities that exist requires that it be a sexual relationship as well. It does not even begin to touch the types of important issues that a relationship with sexual involvement has, it just can’t. A major part of dealing with adult romantic relationships means understanding yourself to a certain point, and understanding how you react when dealing with self-esteem issues, jealousy, voicing concerns over sexual preferences, and the extreme vulnerability of the ego that arises when sex is involved is imperative. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/75 "2009-08-12T23:33:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In my opinion, a serious, adult relationship requires sex. Without sex, it’s just high school. > > I also find it interesting that those who allege to be virgins by choice are indignant about being judged while simultaneously trying to claim a moral high ground for waiting until marriage. If you’re a virgin for moral reasons, then you’re judging everyone who doesn’t wait for marriage as being immoral. Are you saying that you think **Charger** is claiming moral superiority? I saw absolutely none of that in his post. He didn’t address the issue of “morality” at all. Would you mind quoting the part of the post where you feel he claimed the moral high ground? (And the “raging hornball” thing was clearly meant to be humorous hyperbole. ) And by the way, who are you to think you can define what a “serious adult relationship” is? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/76 "2009-08-13T00:47:09Z")
> [@Joey\_Tightlips](#): > > My point is that the things you mentioned are temporary. Sure he’s a virgin now, but one day he won’t be (hopefully), and instantly it’s not an issue. I don’t think so. I wouldn’t be with a 40 year old who just lost his virginity last week either. It would take quite a while to catch up socially, if ever, because it’s not just a matter of having EVER had sex/dated/whatever, but I expect a 40 year old to have many years of experience from which to draw. I have experience, so I expect someone I’m dating to be roughly my equal. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/77 "2009-08-13T00:51:40Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I don’t think so. I wouldn’t be with a 40 year old who just lost his virginity last week either. It would take quite a while to catch up socially, if ever, because it’s not just a matter of having EVER had sex/dated/whatever, but I expect a 40 year old to have many years of experience from which to draw. I have experience, so I expect someone I’m dating to be roughly my equal. On the plus side. At 40 years old you’ve already had about 20 years to get tired of putting up with other peoples shit. He hasnt, so its gonna take awhile before he gets tired of other peoples crap. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/78 "2009-08-13T01:08:58Z")
> [@Charger](#): > > See how this reads like a list of _flaws_, giving the feeling that each one listed is a reason to run for the hills at the sight of this man? > > No job? 40 year old virgin? Leprosy? Keeps hostages chained in his garage? Chronic halitosis? Tattoos depicting ritualistic human sacrifice? > > And this implies that the virginity lifestyle leaves one excluded from “serious relationships.” Maybe it’s not even a choice and some of us are genetically predisposed to wait until marriage, so please don’t judge us for this lifestyle of ours. 😃 That’s exactly what it is, a list. You can’t take just the one thing by itself because it’s not an isolated characteristic for him, it goes right along with the fact that he hasn’t lead what most of us would consider an adult life in many other ways, either. It’s POSSIBLE to be a 40-year-old virgin and have it be a choice that you freely made for some reason other than crippling social anxiety that has prevented you from having normal life experiences, but not when you HAVE crippling social anxiety. He has no other basis for making that “decision” (if you can even call it that, in his case), and that’s the difference. I don’t think every adult virgin is some pathetic recluse. But the older the person is, it does become increasingly likely. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/79 "2009-08-13T01:26:23Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Are you saying that you think **Charger** is claiming moral superiority? I saw absolutely none of that in his post. He didn’t address the issue of “morality” at all. > > Would you mind quoting the part of the post where you feel he claimed the moral high ground? I wasn’t addressing **Charger** specifically, I said “those who allege to be virgins by choice.” Usually they say it’s a moral choice. That means, by definition, that they believe not making that choice is _im_mmoral. If they’re not claiming it’s a moral choice, then my criticism doesn’t apply to them. > [@](#): > > And by the way, who are you to think you can define what a “serious adult relationship” is? I said it was my _opinion_. Who do I have to “be” to have an opinion? I’m also dead right. Serious relationships require intimacy. An aversion of sex is an aversion of intimacy. I don’t think anyone can say they’ve established a mature, adult relationship if they’re afraid to see each other naked or touch a booby. The whole idea that sex is some mystical, sacred, highly significant act is itself an immature and naive notion, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127/80 "2009-08-13T02:37:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m also dead right. Please can I use this as a sig? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-date-him/506127.md?page=5)