# Should I enter a sham marriage or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 18, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212 "2006-04-18T20:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/21 "2006-04-18T21:32:45Z")
I’ll have to admit, the no arguments are convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/22 "2006-04-18T21:40:00Z")
…and when you do find the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with, don’t have a mark like this (the other person will always find out eventually) cast doubt into the relationship with the one you will be legitimately married to. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/23 "2006-04-18T21:48:08Z")
Another “no” vote from me. I think that the legal risks are too great, and there’s really no payoff for you. If you decide to go ahead and marry her anyway, get her to sign a document stating that she’s already pregnant by another man, and she waives all child support claims on you. Have a lawyer draw it up, get it notarized, all that good stuff. I’ll bet she wouldn’t be nearly so eager to trot to the altar if you suggest this. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/24 "2006-04-18T21:52:17Z")
[obligatory Simpsons reference] “Is this a sham marriage?” “Sure baby; is that a problemo?” [/obligatory Simpsons reference] Of course, oddly enough, the moral of that episode was that you shouldn’t bring a child into a sham marriage. Even crazy-ass Matt Groening knows you should bail. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/25 "2006-04-18T21:53:38Z")
p.s.: regardless of wisdom I’ve learned from animated sit-coms, count me among the learned majority. By which I mean no. No way. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/26 "2006-04-18T21:58:32Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Out of the clear blue my dear friend Christine proposed to me over the weekend. I’ve known her for over 10 years. We met back when I was fresh out of law school and she was waiting tables at my favorite dive bar in Cleveland while she was going to college. She’s a gorgeous heterosexual SBF, and I’m a heterosexual SWM. While we always flirted heavily and became friends, we both were always seeing other people. She graduated and moved several states east, went to law school and passed the bar. We’ve kept in touch, made several road trips to visit each other and have had several booty calls (the most recent of which was 3 years ago in Pittsburgh, salute) but nothing beyond that. She’s been engaged to two guys over the years but has broken it off both times, and had at least two affairs with a married men that I know of. I’m no saint either, of course, the details of which are too extensive and embarrassing to go into here. (Suffice to say that in the words of Xander Harris, “My Valentines are usually greeted with heartfelt restraining orders.”) Over this past weekend Christine called and left the following message on my voicemail, “Zamboniracer my dear, you know I’ve always loved you and now I need a big favor from you. I need you to temporarily marry me. We can get married in Vegas and have it annulled later. Call me as soon as you get this message. I love you. I’m serious.” When I called her back she said that she just found out she’s pregnant with a married man’s child and she doesn’t want her baby to be born with the stigma of having been born out of wedlock so would I marry her temporarily in Vegas, with all expenses on her, with a pre-nup in place and with the understanding that we’d annul it in a couple of months. > > I’m too flabbergasted to reply to her at the moment. Any and all cogent thoughts would be appreciated. Only if the _S_ in SBF and SWM means _silly_. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/27 "2006-04-18T22:04:03Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Only if the _S_ in SBF and SWM means _silly_. and \*silly \*means _stupid_. This woman seems to be constantly making a shamble of her life - do you really want her to make a shamble of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/28 "2006-04-18T22:04:21Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > I’m too flabbergasted to reply to her at the moment. Any and all cogent thoughts would be appreciated. You are a lawyer, right? Don’t you recall from law school what the presumption is when a child is born to a couple who are married? You marry her, and then get it annulled, you may be facing a child support suit a few months down the road. You can’t waive away child support in a prenup so easily as you would spousal support. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/29 "2006-04-18T22:12:42Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Another “no” vote from me. I think that the legal risks are too great, and there’s really no payoff for you. If you decide to go ahead and marry her anyway, get her to sign a document stating that she’s already pregnant by another man, and she waives all child support claims on you. Have a lawyer draw it up, get it notarized, all that good stuff. I’ll bet she wouldn’t be nearly so eager to trot to the altar if you suggest this. Even this might not work, especially if the OP’s name goes on the birth certificate (which appears to be Mom’s plan). Many (if not most) states do not allow a mother to waive a child support claim. In addition, laws vary among states (and can change), so the OP should tread carefully here. (You aren’t my client. This is general comment and not to be considered reliable legal advice. See a lawyer/lawyers licensed in all relevant states for meaningful advice.) ---
**Author:** ![N.Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@N.Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N.Sane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/30 "2006-04-18T22:39:25Z")
Another “no” vote. Life is difficult enough without deliberately adding situations like this into the mixture. If she personally considers it a stigma to bear a child out of wedlock, that’s something she should have thought of before having a fling with a married man. You’re better off out of it. Sooner or later she’s going to have to learn how to accept responsibility for her choices, and sooner is better than later. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/31 "2006-04-18T22:46:04Z")
Go to Vegas with her. Have an awesome booty call. Get drunk, gamble, have a blast. Then get cold feet and run out of the chapel. You’ll probably have to pay for your own ticket home. But it’ll be worth it! Vegas, baby, VEGAS!! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/32 "2006-04-18T23:02:00Z")
No, don’t do it. Quite apart from all the other reasons given, simply because it’s dishonest in and of itself. To you and to her and to the child. I’m going to guess here that it’s not the stigma on the child about which she’s worried, but the stigma on her. I’m wondering if her family are very traditional and would ostracise her? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/33 "2006-04-18T23:05:06Z")
The only purpose of a sham marriage would be to get your name on the child’s birth certificate. And the only reason to get your name on the child’s birth certificate is to pretend that you’re the father. And a parent can’t sign away the right to child support via pre-nup, because the child support doesn’t belong to the custodial parent, it belongs to the child, nevermind that the custodial parent decides how that money is spent. So the child always has a right to child support, and if you don’t contest the presumption that you’re the father within a certain time limit, then you’re the legal father, no matter what a DNA test years later shows. Even if the mother doesn’t intend–today–to ask you for child support, what if her situation changes? What if she becomes disabled and can’t work? If she gets welfare payments from the state, the state is going to sue you for child support. What if she becomes bitter about her life, and decides it’s all your fault? What if she dies? Bottom line, a sham marriage means becoming a sham parent, and there’s a non-zero likelihood that you’ll end up paying 18 years of child support for some other man’s child. And, do you know her family? Other friends? Is she going to tell them you’re the father? Do you really want to play the part of the bum that abandoned his wife and child to her family? Why can’t the real bum play that part? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/34 "2006-04-18T23:17:52Z")
Wow, some gal. She’s allegedly worried about the stigma of bearing a child out of wedlock, but sees nothing wrong with having sexual affairs with multiple married men? _Verrrrrrrry_ nice. Watch your back. Something’s hinky. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/35 "2006-04-18T23:42:44Z")
You got that feeling too **EJ’s Girl**?? I’m a foursquare NO to this deal. She’s looking to get you on the hook, period. This sham may ending up costing you 18 years of your life. Say no, no, a thousand times no. I mean, that doesn’t mean you can’t fly to Vegas on her, have a nice dinner on her, hit it once or twice, and skip town, but for the love of Og, don’t marry this woman. What? I’m kidding, I’m kidding ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/36 "2006-04-19T00:06:18Z")
Well… IANAL but the impression I get nature of most state CS laws, and the obligations attached to being a parent, is that these laws are taken VERY seriously and rigorously enforced, and if they can find you and attach your assets you might as well put a fork in yourself. If it comes down to the crunch, and the child is in need at some point in the future (and if she’s a somewhat flaky serial adulterer think about the probabilities), and your name is on the birth certificate I think most of these laws might well trump a pre-nups “no harm-no foul” disclaimers re expected child support. If you do this in the current legal environment, and the aggressive way states go after CS collections you’re insane. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/37 "2006-04-19T00:28:19Z")
Yeah, I can see this from her point of view. It is a great idea. Let’s see, 18 years of child support after she dumps your ass, and then, depending on the state she resides in, another 4 years in an Ivy League school for which the court might make you pay half or even all of it? Shit yeah, marry her, where’s the down side? ---
**Author:** ![No\_longer\_shall\_I\_lurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9e8a1a/32.png) [@No\_longer\_shall\_I\_lurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_longer_shall_I_lurk)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/38 "2006-04-19T00:28:29Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Meanwhile, gay couples who’ve been together for 50 years or more are turned away at the courthouse steps. > > By all means, marry the woman. Show up the institution of hetero-exclusive marriage for the bullshit that it is. Be sure to send properly annotated copies of your announcement to all the radical right “pro-marriage” groups you can find so they know exactly what they’re fighting for. I **like** this idea! ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/39 "2006-04-19T00:29:54Z")
Okay, let’s go with the most charitable interpretation possible for the moment, assuming absolutely no hidden agenda on her part: she wants her kid’s birth certificate to list a father, ANY father, so that the kid won’t be advertising that s/he is the product of an out of wedlock birth every time s/he has to show a birth certificate. Nothing else. Just concern for her kid’s possible future embarassment. Guess what? It’s STILL not a good idea. Even if she’s an absolutely wonderful person and never, ever tries to get you to pay child support, there’s still the issue of what would happen in the event of her disability or death, like **Lemur866** mentioned. In the first case, the state would force you to pay child support, and in the second, you’d likely get custody of the kid even if someone more appropriate (say, a grandparent or stepparent) was around. (I suggest you bring this up when she wants to know why you’re saying no…) Plus, she CAN get the real father’s name put on there if she wants to. Even if he’s not willing, it can be added later by court order. Minnesota’s regs on this, which seem to be representative of the norm, are [here](http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/rop.html). And finally… how often is someone honestly going to want to see her kid’s birth certificate? Just get the kid a passport or something. That doesn’t list parents and it’s usually more useful than a birth certificate anyway. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/40 "2006-04-19T00:41:18Z")
As a side note for everyone that thinks this is hypocritical or illogical of her to want a registered daddy, a fair number of college educated SBFs are from somewhat fairly conservative, fairly religious backgrounds that absolutely abhor out of wedlock births. In that context her parents and kin may not get too involved in her business is she just dating and sleeping around, but when a kid is coming down the pike that all changes. She may be feeling a good bit of pressure not to bring the child into the world with the (perceived) stigma of it being the result of an out of wedlock birth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212.md?page=3)