# Should I enter a sham marriage or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 18, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212 "2006-04-18T20:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cynical\_Optimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Cynical\_Optimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynical_Optimist)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/61 "2006-04-19T13:25:01Z")
_Naw I ain sayin’ she a go’digga, buh she ain messin’ wit no broke…_ In this case what goes in Vegas doesn’t stay in Vegas. Want to spend 22 years paying for another guy’s side dish? Let Married Loverboy buy the silence of his mistress. You didn’t knock her up, don’t let her lock you up. If you want meaningless sex in Nevada there are plenty of establishments (not within city limits however) that will provide a weekend of fun for alot less. ---
**Author:** ![Zog\_10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c57346/32.png) [@Zog\_10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zog_10)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/62 "2006-04-19T14:34:15Z")
Out of curiosity, is there some way this could get them disbarred? I mean, if they are lawyers and they knowingly enter into a sham/fraudulent marriage - isn’t that an ethics violation? Or have I been watching too much _Law & Order_? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/63 "2006-04-19T15:06:15Z")
> [@Zog\_10](#): > > Out of curiosity, is there some way this could get them disbarred? > > I mean, if they are lawyers and they knowingly enter into a sham/fraudulent marriage - isn’t that an ethics violation? > > Or have I been watching too much _Law & Order_? Theoretically it could get us disbarred as perpetrating a fraud on the court, which is about reason no. 1.6 million as to why it is a bad idea. We spoke last night and I told her there was no way I’d do it, for many of the reasons put so well in this thread. Thanks y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/64 "2006-04-19T16:55:43Z")
I wasn’t married when my son was born (in fact, I didn’t marry until he was 20). I put his dad’s name on the birth certificate without having to get permission from him. If he wanted to dispute that (which he didn’t), he could go to court. I’m sure this woman is worried about her son going to the married guy in 18 years and turning his life upside down. Really…who gives a shit anymore? Religious folks? She ain’t one. Kids? I don’t think so based on posts from offspring of illegitimate parents around here! Could it be a costly romp for our poster? You betchya. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/65 "2006-04-19T17:11:40Z")
I pity this child–NOT for being born with the “stigma” of illigetimacy, but for having a batshit insane mother. Lover Boy is the one who needs to pony up here–it sounds to me like she is desperate and not thinking straight–perfect way to have a baby! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/66 "2006-04-19T17:50:24Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > We spoke last night and I told her there was no way I’d do it, for many of the reasons put so well in this thread. Thanks y’all. Good for you- you did the right thing. You didn’t do it, and you didn’t lead her on and let her think you would do it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/67 "2006-04-19T18:03:29Z")
eleanorigby writes: \> . . . batshit insane . . . Now that we’ve established that you shouldn’t marry this woman, let’s talk about what you should do for her. She’s not very stable, to say the least, and she’s going to have a lot of problems with the responsibility of rasing a child. As I said, perhaps the best thing would be if she would put the child up for adoption. If she doesn’t want to do that, the next thing is to get her a lawyer and discuss child support with the father. Yeah, I know that you’re both lawyers, but it would be better to be professional about this and hire a lawyer with some experience in paternity cases (and no personal involvement in this mess) to handle this matter. She might want to get some psychological counselling too, so that she can discuss her inability to straighten out her personal life. And if you want to help her as a friend, you might want to tell her that you would like to occasionally help out with the child. This would be on the level of buying the kid birthday and Christmas presents and occasionally playing with them. Make it clear that you can’t be a regular babysitter though. Does she have problems to work through with her family? If her family would be bothered by learning that she’s going to be a single mother, maybe her relationship to them should be part of the psychological counselling. She’s got to learn to be honest with them. One can please their family by following their expectations completely or one can break away from them if one disagrees with their expectations, but one can’t do both. ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/68 "2006-04-19T18:30:54Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > Who is she planning to name as the father on the birth certificate? I believe it is still true that a woman’s husband is assumed to be the father of any child she bears. I would really, really, really think this over before I went for it. I can foresee a lot of complications. Hallboy was born almost 12 years ago (in Oklahoma). There wasn’t even a space on the birth certificate for a father’s name. It listed only my own (and Hallboy’s). ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/69 "2006-04-19T18:35:19Z")
No, no, no…I think the OP SHOULD marry her. Because it sounds as if this woman in an irresponsible nutcase with the morals of an alley cat, so SOMEONE will need to be a stable source in this kid’s life. But, if she’s going to annull the marriage…well, that may change things a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/70 "2006-04-19T19:11:53Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > No, no, no…I think the OP SHOULD marry her. Because it sounds as if this woman in an irresponsible nutcase with the morals of an alley cat, so SOMEONE will need to be a stable source in this kid’s life. But, if she’s going to annull the marriage…well, that may change things a bit. Plus we could look forward to the weekly installments of **zamboniracer’s** Great Lament Thread for the next 18 years. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/71 "2006-04-19T20:11:49Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > eleanorigby writes: > > \> . . . batshit insane . . . > > Now that we’ve established that you shouldn’t marry this woman, let’s talk about what you should do for her. She’s not very stable, to say the least, and she’s going to have a lot of problems with the responsibility of rasing a child. As I said, perhaps the best thing would be if she would put the child up for adoption. If she doesn’t want to do that, the next thing is to get her a lawyer and discuss child support with the father. Yeah, I know that you’re both lawyers, but it would be better to be professional about this and hire a lawyer with some experience in paternity cases (and no personal involvement in this mess) to handle this matter. > > She might want to get some psychological counselling too, so that she can discuss her inability to straighten out her personal life. And if you want to help her as a friend, you might want to tell her that you would like to occasionally help out with the child. This would be on the level of buying the kid birthday and Christmas presents and occasionally playing with them. Make it clear that you can’t be a regular babysitter though. > > Does she have problems to work through with her family? If her family would be bothered by learning that she’s going to be a single mother, maybe her relationship to them should be part of the psychological counselling. She’s got to learn to be honest with them. One can please their family by following their expectations completely or one can break away from them if one disagrees with their expectations, but one can’t do both. Excellent advice I shall follow. We talked about her getting a local family law attorney to advise her and she certainly needs that. Psychological counselling is also in order. I didn’t consider placing the child for adoption but that certainly should be considered too. Her family background isn’t the best. She has three siblings: a sister who’s happily married to a nice man with a good job and with whom she has 2.3 kids they’re raising in a nice suburb, one of her brothers is in prison for drug trafficking and the other one died already from kidney failure, which if I recall was brought about by alcoholism. She has a divorced mother in aonther state who is a realtor and who has remarried, and a father who she’s never spoken to me about. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/72 "2006-04-21T09:49:40Z")
Nonononononononononononononononononononono…\ In other words, no. Did I mention no? No? Well, okay, my advice is N+O = no. No, don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/73 "2006-04-21T11:11:42Z")
> [@Mellivora capensis](#): > > Nonononononononononononononononononononono…\ > > In other words, no. > > Did I mention no? > > No? > > Well, okay, my advice is N+O = no. > > No, don’t do it. And before some no-it-all comes in here and tells me that I’m a little late for this party, let me say, I no. And I also no that double posts are a no-no, but you no what, tough cookie. I was just, y’no, making sure my no-vote got counted. Y’no, getting in on the action and all that. I no, I no, no-one really cares, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/74 "2006-04-21T11:54:35Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/75 "2006-04-21T12:00:21Z")
There’s been a lot of good advice already, in the best tradition of the SDMB. Here is another tradition… Marry her? Well is she HOT?! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/76 "2006-04-21T12:51:23Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Another “no” vote from me. I think that the legal risks are too great, and there’s really no payoff for you. If you decide to go ahead and marry her anyway, get her to sign a document stating that she’s already pregnant by another man, and she waives all child support claims on you. Have a lawyer draw it up, get it notarized, all that good stuff. I’ll bet she wouldn’t be nearly so eager to trot to the altar if you suggest this. This is the right thing to do. From reading the history, this sounds like a person who is not 100% stable or aware of her own motives, or the consequences of her actions. My long-distance psychoanalysis decoder ring tells me that this has less to do with the “stigma” of parentage. On some level she’s thinking she can seduce you into her nascent family circle to be a provider and father for the child, and that the “sham marriage” would advance this cause. This could be happening at a conscious or subconscious level, she might not be able to admit to herself or you that this is what she wants and needs. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/77 "2006-04-21T13:33:09Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > I think that’s correct. I live in Ohio and the husband is presumed to be the father to any child born of the wife during the marriage. The presumption can be defeated in a lawsuit for parentage or divorce on the grounds of infidelity with a negative DNA test. Yet there have been cases where men have been forced to pay child support for children their wives have had by other men. In those cases the husband believed the kids were his own for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/78 "2006-04-21T14:16:21Z")
All the really great reasons aside, I’d say no based on the fact that she left a potentially life-altering proposition on your ANSWERING MACHINE. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/79 "2006-04-21T14:30:28Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > All the really great reasons aside, I’d say no based on the fact that she left a potentially life-altering proposition on your ANSWERING MACHINE. That’s also a good point. She doesn’t seem to be taking serious things all that seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212/80 "2006-04-21T15:16:42Z")
Not like you need any more reasons, but she could run up a mountain of debt while married to you and I believe that might leave skid marks all over your credit score if she goes into default or declares bankruptcy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-enter-a-sham-marriage-or-not/353212.md?page=5)