Should I (even) consider getting a Mac?

In My Humble Opinion
21

Merneith I just want to say that I didn’t mean that post to be as ‘snarky’ as it may read. I really mean it when I say I appreciate hearing from people who are offering input… The Falcon laptops, if capable of playing gaming software to the point where I don’t need it to be ‘future proof’, but able to play current games without having to mess around with display settings which are… just annoying as all hell, I could see past it’s ugly externals. The one you brought up was a tower though.

If I were to forget about high end gaming altogether, I may be willing to pay more for the ease of a Mac. That’s if I want a laptop. I really see a chance to get out more with one. Is it likely to find a gaming laptop for around $1,500, that shouldn’t have a problem with current games? When I called Dell about their Alien Ware laptops that ‘start at; $1,500’ the sales person kept pressing for me to add on to it.

I just have a Wii, and no HD TV yet, (I will when my 7 or 8 year old big screen, projection TV dies). But I would like to enjoy some of the games I miss out on without the PS3 or X-Box. It’s not paramount, especially since those prices are going way down… The only reason why I wouldn’t just get a functional laptop and also another gaming console is that my parents are offering it to me as a gift… if I can get a game machine out of the deal, I wouldn’t have to pay for one on my own. So it’s KIND of sneaky. That’s what I wanted 2 years ago, but that makes a difference too. Why not wait out this generation of councils? I could either get a X-Box, or PS3 on the cheap, or perhaps wait for new iterations. The point is, the time that’s elapsed matters.

Macs may help solve the frustrations I have with the primary reason I use computers. But of course Windows 7 comes out right when this all happens. I feel really torn. I’m also mad Macs don’t come with a word processor. Can I get one for free off the net?
Sorry, I posted this in haste as I need to go to work soon… but I really would like to hear other’s opinions. I’m know I’ve broadened the topic more into; “Help me decide what kind of computer I want”, but really… this is important purchase, and since I do really heavily on my parents, I do want to be conscious of their money, (and the quality of what it’s put towards… they would go higher than $1,500. They feel bad about the last one they got me.

22

For the majority of people, a Mac or an Windows based PC will be just fine.

What you really should do is either go to an Apple retailer or find someone who has a Mac and play around with it to see if you like it. If you really like it, then get a Mac. You won’t be disappointed.

But…

Generally speaking, you will get more bang for your buck if you go with a Windows based laptop like a Dell. Especially if you look for deals from Dell.

For example, there’s a deal running now for a Dell Studio 16 laptop, with excellent specs for $1299. Dell also has a huge range of laptops at all kinds of price points. There are some really good systems for pretty cheap money.

23

I disagree. OS X is a huge advantage. There’s this amazing feature on my MacBook - a system utility called “Force Quit”. If you have a program that is stuck or is taking over your computer, you pull down the Apple menu, select “Force Quit”, click on the application you want to kill, and click on the force quit button.

This is the part where you have to hold on to your genitals, because - are you and your body parts all secure now? - the rogue application stops.

No waiting. No “Are you sure you want to do that?” windows, let alone multiple of them. No need to tell the computer that you do NOT want to send a report of this problem to Redmond, where they are just going to ignore it anyway. No need to repeat the exercise dozens of time. No need to reboot, or yank the power plug from the wall. No temptation to throw the oedipal POS through the nearest window. And definitiely no need to run widdershins around an abandoned church while you pray to St. Turing that your computer actually reboots.

Apple software just effing works. It sounds like such a small advantage, but it’s crucial.

24

I have both a five year old PowerBook G4 (personal laptop) and a less than one year old Dell Precision M2400 (work laptop) sitting on my desk right now. Guess which one I’m typing this message on? :wink:

Seriously, although for the average non-power user many of the reason I purchased the Mac (ability to natively run Unix/Linux/BSD utilities, interface easily with Linux clusters and run Perl/Python scripts from the command line, et cetera) don’t apply, both the OS and the hardware are just more robust, more refined, and frankly, require less attention. I spent a few hours several years ago hardening the default OS X configuration (which should be done by any users) and haven’t touched it since. On my PC running WinXP, despite having virus scanners, corporate-configured firewall, et cetera, I have to regularly clean up registry entries, kill errant processes, reboot from lockup, et cetera, and despite repeated claims by Microsoft back in the Win2K days that the dreaded Blue Screen of Death was a thing of the past, I get BSOD’d at least twice a week, as do my coworkers with the exact same machine. And this is actually better performance than the other line of Windows machines we have at work.

But I can top my own anecdotal experience by pointing out that every single (competent) IT person and sysadmin I know either uses a OS X (most) or Linux box (hardcore) for personal use. A few also use PCs, mostly for gaming purposes or as home media boxes, but among the guys who maintain PCs for a living, OS X is incredibly popular.

The hardware is pricy, though if you compare the base machine configurations head to head for comparable quality of parts, the Macs are actually quite competitive; they just don’t really make a machine for the low end of the market, that being someplace they clearly just don’t think it worthwhile to compete. (Many of the peripherals, however, are ungodly expensive, so don’t buy an Apple flatscreen or AirPort.) I also find that the design and build quality of Apple hardware is as good or frequently better than PCs; Sony comes close, but Toshiba and Dell machines of similar configuration always feel somewhat clunky and not quite thought out, and other PCs just seem to be cheap and shoddy in comparison. So, esthetically, I find the Apple hardware to be superior, and to hold up better in the long run.

So, yeah, you should consider a Mac, as long as you don’t have a use that requires PC-only software. Of course, you should look at the other options as well, and consider what you’re willing to spend, how long you want to keep the machine before upgrading, and how much trouble you’re willing to put into maintenance.

Stranger

25

Well, Macs come with a basic word processor called TextEdit, but you can download OpenOffice.org if you want a free Office-like suite. Apple also has its own productivity suite callediWork that can save .doc files. All Macs come with a trial of iWork installed, so you can try it for a while and see if you like it. And of course, you can always get Office for Mac too.

26

Can people say a bit more about the “less fiddling” aspect of Macs?

I don’t like the idea of sitting down in front of a Mac to see how I like it. In this circumstance it will probably function the way the instructions say it will. When Windows functions the way the instructions say it will, I like it just fine. But when software just flat out stops working, when Windows Genuine Advantage keeps interrupting my work, when I spend hours trying to figure out how to install a firewall or an antivirus program that just won’t cooperate, or when I can’t even boot into “Safe Mode”, my Windows computer is a great deal of expensive work that has no utility at all.

So, if someone switches from Windows to Mac,

  1. Do they have to read up on security software and fight with it to get it operating?

  2. Do they have to learn how to change Registry settings without triggering catastrophe?

  3. Does IT try to help them print to the printer next door, and work on it occasionally over 5 years, and give up and say “Just print your black and white text to the dye sub printer in the other office wing”?

  4. Do they have to figure out how to configure static IP address hardware from a DHCP client laptop while maintaining internet connectivity for license activation (that was 2 hours yesterday that I bet I never get back)?

  5. Do they disrupt every element of their work when some broken software forces an update here, which now forces an update there, which now forces… well, you get the idea… do they?

  6. Is there a DLL hell in the Mac universe?

Jeez, I’m hyperventillating now. If I want to use Quicken for my checkbook, and want a web browser, a nice text editor, and a small but clean photo editing app, can I switch to a Mac and stop hyperventillating?

I have iTunes too - will the Mac support that? Wait, I think I know that one…

27

1) Do they have to read up on security software and fight with it to get it operating?

What kind of security software do you have in mind? You mean like firewalls? VPNs? Setting up privileges for other folks to connect to your computer in one fashion or another? Antivirus software? Something else?

Short answer: nope. Elaboration: sharing out a specific folder to someone else without sharing other resources to them can be a bit frustrating, dunno if it’s less frustrating on a Windows PC.

2) Do they have to learn how to change Registry settings without triggering catastrophe?

We don’t have a registry. Period.

3) Does IT try to help them print to the printer next door, and work on it occasionally over 5 years, and give up and say “Just print your black and white text to the dye sub printer in the other office wing”?

Only if it’s a printer that doesn’t have a Mac driver at all. I’m on a laptop and constantly going to remote locations to help clients. I install new printers easily. Just works.
4) Do they have to figure out how to configure static IP address hardware from a DHCP client laptop while maintaining internet connectivity for license activation (that was 2 hours yesterday that I bet I never get back)?

:confused: don’t understand the hypothetical problem. Your laptop has a dynamically assigned IP but you are configuring some piece of hardware. The HARDWARE’S IP does not change out from under you. You aren’t shutting down so of course you maintain internet connectivity for license activation (of the hardware, I assume?) and your DHCP address isn’t going to change out from under you unless the lease period is set ludicrously low. So what is the difficulty?
5) Do they disrupt every element of their work when some broken software forces an update here, which now forces an update there, which now forces… well, you get the idea… do they?

Only if you compile X11applications from source code. Even then, not really. We don’t have dll files that are used by multple applications, so it doesn’t matter if YouTunes uses version 2.13 of some library while BloatoShop uses version 2.36 of the same library; they each have their own local copies inside the application bundle.

6) Is there a DLL hell in the Mac universe?

See above. No DLL hell.

Jeez, I’m hyperventillating now. If I want to use Quicken for my checkbook, and want a web browser, a nice text editor, and a small but clean photo editing app, can I switch to a Mac and stop hyperventillating?

Quicken for the Mac has been known to make a few people hyperventilate. But that’s probably true of the Windows version too. Other than that, no.

**I have iTunes too - will the Mac support that? Wait, I think I know that one…
[/QUOTE]
**

:slight_smile:

28

That same exact feature exists on every Linux-based operating system I have ever used. It is not unique to OS X, nor to the Mac platform.

29

Hey MyFootsZZZ:
To answer your question properly, it would help if you could share what you intend to use the computer for. So far I got:

  1. Should run smoothly
  2. Should be game-friendly
  3. Laptops are preferred
  4. Under $1500

I’d recommend a Mac to people who like smooth-running machines, but typically not to gamers. There are several MacBooks under $1500, so criteria #3 and #4 are met.

I curious about how you feel about learning an all-new OS? I know a common frustration with some people considering the switch is the expectation that everything should be done they way they do things on a Windows machine. The people for whom re-learning a few fundamentals usually enjoy the Mac OS experience over the Windows.

Also, are there apps that you typically use? How do you feel about shelling out for Mac versions of the software you use? Do replacement applications need to fall within the $1500 range?

The old saw that Macs are more pricey is true partially because they don’t sell low-end configurations. But if you do a spec-by-spec, feature-by-feature comparison, to a similarly-equipped PC, they are beyond competitively priced.

Though I’m a Mac user, I think it’s great that you’d consider one, but I’m not evangelical about it and won’t recommend one if I think your needs warrant a PC. So let me know more about what you’d like to do with your computer.

30

As an aside, if you really want to use the typical unix productivity and programming software (databases, emacs, different programming languages etc…) you’re probably best off using MacPorts, and only install other stuff by hand if it’s not available via macports. That will not get rid of the dependency upgrade “problem”, but it will make the dependency tracking 100% automatic.

I might note that the tools available via MacPorts are probably not that interesting to the typical mac user. Probably the most interesting for programmers and people who want a complete Emacs/Auctex/LaTeX environment.

More “typical” mac applications are generally distributed as stand alone applications, which need little to no installation.

31

It’s ok, MyFootsZZZ. I didn’t think you sounded snarky. :slight_smile:

No, I don’t work for Falcon; I’m a customer. Yes, the laptops are sort of ugly. They’re pricey too. I tend not to be a fan of laptops in general because you can get so much more power for a better price in a desktop. But that’s a personal quirk.

What Falcon brings to the table is
a) better quality components, with better future proofing
b) better customer support
c) years of experience with choosing the right components for the best possible gaming experience.

If this isn’t primarily about a gaming computer, I’d say get whichever one you want. Macs are slick and they do enough games that between the mac and your Wii you’ll probably be happy. As I said, Blizzard alone makes enough games to keep a part-time gamer happy.

As far as word processors go, check out Google Docs too. It’s a free online app from google. It’s not as powerful as office but it might fit your needs. And you can’t beat free.

AHunter3 -

I take security very seriously, which is probably why I’ve only had good experiences with Windows. So I get nervous when mac-fans talk as if security wasn’t something they needed to think about at all. It’s a different situation, I’ll grant you, in that no one is getting paid to hack Macs. But Mac users still should run firewalls, imo, and maintain situational awareness. (I can’t remember offhand if there’s a built in firewall. Other than the router I mean.) Most malware gets installed deliberately by the user, after all.

32

We have a built-in firewall which is easy to configure and use. VPN is also a built-in functionality and easy to use.

There is a thingie called FileVault which encrypts your home folder (per the account) but it has proven unreliable and problematic at least for some people once upon a time (?); I never used it for that reason.

I don’t run antivirus sw. It has been pointed out to me that antivirus software could conceivably download an updated version of itself that included an antivirus definition of the [del]first[/del] umm next new virus, before I would read about the new virus’s existence. Your call. The one that most Mac users point to is “Clam AV”. There is no Mac anti-spyware AFAIK and no spyware to be “anti” about. There’s an app called Little Snitch that will intercept any attempt to network w/o your permission (“phoning home”). It’s up to you to set a robust password for your accounts, and some folks use a non-Adminrights account for everyday use (I don’t). Ports are not active by default. You can disable auto-login of any account so that on reboot an account name and password are necessary. The root account is disabled by default. Non-root accounts cannot view or edit the home folders of other accounts.

If you ask more specific security questions, you’ll probably get better answers with more relevant details.

33

The difficulty was that we have two subnets, one with DHCP for typical office work, and one with static IP and no inet access, for specialty hardware, and the hardware device had been configured for the second subnet. If we put the hardware on the DHCP side, cycling its power invites the DHCP server to assign its address to something else while it is off and then creates a conflict when it’s back on. But if we put the laptop on the static side, we can’t go out to the inet for license activation and similar things. Since you actually have to use the IP link to this particular hardware to instruct it to adopt a new static IP address, and since we keep wanting to use the inet to check email for a new license certificate and to check the mfr’s web site for bug patches and version numbers for each new little module and add-on that announces itself, it turns into a great parade of chicken-and-egg problems and blind alleyways and lost communication links and other foolishness.
The thing is, while this is probably pretty easy for somebody who is an expert in network communications, we weren’t, and all the IT people were in a long meeting with each other. We weren’t supposed to be network experts, either. We want to develop software for this hardware device. We want to think about PID control loop dynamics and how much Modula-2 is like OOP and how much it isn’t. When I asked, the electrical engineer I was doing this with agreed that electrical engineers today need to know more about Microsoft Windows than about control loop dynamics.
Computers have not made technical work simpler. But one thing they have done is to make it less important for scientists and engineers to understand science and engineering, and more important for them to understand dll’s and the seven layers of TCP/IP over Ethernet. That is, I guess, some kind of leveling of the playing field, but not the kind I was hoping for.

BTW, about Quicken, if I could change something about it, I would remove the part of the help system that teaches you how to get out of debt, and add a part that explains why there’s a three year slice of data missing from the middle of each graph I request.

34

Don’t be afraid to think different. You deserve stability. I say do it!

35

Aah so. Gotcha.

The MacOS lets you set up multiple ways of being “on the network”, and although it “expects” you to only have (for example) “Ethernet” in the list ONCE (and to arrange it preferentially before or after “Modem” or “AirPort” [802.11, WiFi] or “FireWire”), you can duplicate that, and I think that by doing so you can simultaneously have access to Network 1 which is connected to the outside world and also Network 2 which is not but which is the network that the beforementioned hardware device is on.

I do know for sure that multiple protocols do work simultaneously when the actual physical interfact to those networks is distinct — for example, creating a two-computer network using a FireWire cable to a second computer that is NOT on the DHCP network, while obtaining an IP from the Ethernet-connected DHCP connection, and being able to have a functioning web browser and an FTP connection to the other computer both open and operational at the same time. Or (example two) joining an internal-only wireless network while obtaining an IP from DSL (PPPoE) via the Ethernet. And your Mac can be a quick-n-dirty router, sharing the internet connection (DHCP) to the items on the other network (the static IP network) so that THEY now are “internet accessible” if, for example, you needed to prompt a firmware update of the device.

I would strongly suspect that duplicating “Ethernet” would let you set up one occurrence of it as DHCP while the other occurrence of it has a static IP with a specified router and mask and whatnot, so you could simultaneously connect to your device and also to the device manufacturer’s web site.

36

Yes, but not on Windoze. Many’s the time I’ve had a stuck program or a program running wild and I had to resort to unplugging the box. Not on my MacBook.

That’s just one example of the excellent “fit and finish” in most Apple software.

37

First of all, OS X is not invulnerable to being hacked, but the basic design of FreeBSD (from which it is based) makes it a lot easier to secure the system, and the transparency of the core utilities of the OS to the general population make certain that any vulnerability is quickly exposed and corrected. In this regard, OS X and other modern *nixes are way ahead of Windows operating systems, as the security model used by Microsoft is a combination of obscurity and Byzantine permissions protocols which don’t protect a novice user well.

OS X, in the default configuration, has a number of exploits, but they are fairly limited in terms of the amount of damage that can be done to the system; basically, they can be used to extract information, but it would be very difficult to hang the system the way many Windows viruses and trojans can. Locking down OS X is a matter of a couple hours of work, even for a novice just dumbly following instructions, and the system is perfectly serviceable then with just access to an administrative password. Locking down XP, on the other hand, requires some pretty extensive understanding of Windows and a willingness to thoroughly vet any new installations and control the install and config process. (I can’t speak for Vista or Win7, as I haven’t used those OSs extensively, but Vista seemed to get a really bad rep for being very secure by making the user jump through a vast number of hoops to accomplish anything.)

There is both a built-in firewall and a file encryption system on OS X 10.3 and greater. Of course, there are fewer hackers going after OS X, but to some extent that is a result of the system being so difficult to successfully and consistently exploit in the first place. Windows is much more profitable to attack by virtue of being low hanging fruit.

Stranger

38

In the nine months I spent being Apple CPU Tier 1 support, I only saw one actual mac with a virus or malware. That was a DNS redirect that was easy to spot. In network settings, we saw that it was redirecting his internet through a server IP address beginning with 85. Once we changed that, it resolved the immediate problem of his internet being molasses slow, but I had to point him at malware removal programs to remove the underlying redirect software.

I gotta tell you, I’ve been drooling over the new 27" iMacs.

39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve heard all this before. As far as I’m concerned, everything after “OS X is not invulnerable to being hacked” is just window dressing. It’s not invulnerable, therefore it’s foolish to act like mac users don’t even need to think about security. Of they course they do. And honestly - the weak spot in any security set up is the user, not the machines.

As for the byzantine XP procedure, it looks like this:

  1. Install a firewall (or locate Windows firewall).
  2. Install anti-virus.
  3. Run them.

It really is that simple. You can combine steps 1 & 2 depending on the product you choose. I ran xp for seven years on my personal machine and I still have xp machines in the family network. Not a single problem.

I don’t mean to jump on you personally, Stranger. Macs are sweet machines. They’re not invulnerable. They’re not unbreakable. They’re not magic. But yeah, sweet.

Also? Windows are sweet machines too. Sweeter than macs, for some things.

40

Tinkered with a friends Mac today. It was neat. Before I mentioned World of Goo, which I know comes for both PC and Mac. It’s been said that there are indie games that are often PC exclusive here. I’m thinking about just getting a capable PC laptop. I should be content to wait and see where the game console trends seem to go. They’re practical people, and thought that may cost less. I told them I’m content to seeing where I’m at financially, and what happens in a little time, (see what the trends may go).

Mac is a formidable opponent to a PC, and I would be missing out on certain things if I were to go either way. I’m not sure they’re out of the running, but I visited Best Buy, and Windows 7 did seem pretty hot. This may be a stupid question; Does anyone think it’s worth it to get a computer at there? I know the, (I think), 3 year warranty deal… it took two years for mine to poop-out. I always wonder if any business I get a warranty from will be around in 3 years. I’m not computer savy AT ALL, the “Geek” I met was nice, and it was an overall nice eperience.

I compared specs to one a Dell they had to the one I got from Dell, the $1,500 one… they were the same computer, (it seemed, and VERY close in price, the monitor made the difference). It was a Dell Studio XPS.

Now I’m going to call Dell and bust their balls/ovaries about it… Just to see where that goes.