# Should I go to grad school? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491 "2014-04-06T18:15:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/61 "2014-04-09T15:20:32Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > That would be disappointing. I was hoping to meet other students with similar interests, and maybe even a professor. > > Do you speak from personal experience? You will absolutely meet faculty and other students with similar interest. If the program and people are decent, you will have many fascinating and enlightening conversations. But these interactions will mostly be compressed into a handful of once-a-week meetings, classes, and seminars, and the occasional annual conference. Since you’re older and have a family, you’ll probably miss out on most of the opportunities to interact with other graduate students which are after hours (and centered around free/cheap beer). Most of the time you will be working independently. You will spend countless hours on your own, digging into the literature, analyzing data, and doing whatever experiments heterodox economists do. At the beginning ideally you’ll get more assistance, but the end goal is to learn how to do truly independent research. And the hours really are countless. If you are extremely disciplined with your time, AND IF your research advisor is a reasonable human being, AND IF you are smart and lucky enough to make good progress right away, you could possibly get away with “only” working 50 hours/week. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/62 "2014-04-09T16:27:33Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > You make some good points. And if you’re the same person I think you are, you’ve made a lot of good points before. > > As to the math bit - that is a concern. I haven’t taken a math course since HS, and only scored a 69 on the math section of the GRE. I got a 97 on the verbal, but traditional Econ schools - so I’m told - only care about the math part. That’s one reason I wouldn’t want to do a mainstream economics program. I don’t particularly like math, and I’m not good at it. I don’t want to spend years learning to do complicated equations so that economics can seem more like “real” science, rather than merely a social science. Econometrics - to my understanding - is the fad in economics. That’s not what I want to do. > > I don’t think it’s quite true that I want to go merely to validate a theory I already have. I want to learn more about it. I don’t _think_ it’s bullshit, but if it is, it is. I’ve spent the last few years learning as much about it as my spare time allows. You may have seen some of my arguments with Hellestal on other parts of the board - in fact, I think you were here in some of them. > > You can get a sense of the academic status of what I’m interested in (MMT, or Modern Monetary Theory) [here](http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/06/honest-mom-i-only-bought-the-new-playboy-to-read-the-article-on-umkc-economics.html) or [here](http://my.firedoglake.com/wigwam/2012/06/03/umkc-economists-finally-get-respect-but-in-playboy/). It’s not great. But that’s why Thanks. Hope it was me. If economics departments are like other ones, a good one will make sure you have the math even if you intend to specialize in an area that doesn’t use the math. For one thing, they don’t want to graduate PhDs who are clueless about metrics. You might be asked to teach it some day. I certainly had to take lots of classes which I knew I’d never need. Neither of your links gives me a good idea of what MMT is about. That theory X got it wrong doesn’t mean that theory Y is correct. Krugman predicted the crash - he did it in his Times column long before it happened, though he did not predict the severity of it. Taleb did also in The Black Swan - but if you understand what he is saying at all, you wouldn’t think he will present himself as a successful seer. Anyhow, I’m glad you want to go into this with an open mind. Anyhow, if you want to write a book, here is what you can do, which doesn’t involve going to grad school. First, know what is out there. Second, do an outline and first chapter, and run it by some people who actually know the field. Then, put together a query package and try to find an agent or publisher. If you want to publish a novel, you have to finish it before submitting. That is not true for non-fiction books, but you need to have enough material to convince an editor that the book will be good and that you will finish it. There are plenty of resource out there about how to put together a book proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/63 "2014-04-09T16:32:28Z")
If you have to ask, you shouldn’t be going. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/64 "2014-04-09T16:42:10Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > You will absolutely meet faculty and other students with similar interest. If the program and people are decent, you will have many fascinating and enlightening conversations. But these interactions will mostly be compressed into a handful of once-a-week meetings, classes, and seminars, and the occasional annual conference. > > Since you’re older and have a family, you’ll probably miss out on most of the opportunities to interact with other graduate students which are after hours (and centered around free/cheap beer). > > And the hours really are countless. If you are extremely disciplined with your time, AND IF your research advisor is a reasonable human being, AND IF you are smart and lucky enough to make good progress right away, you could possibly get away with “only” working 50 hours/week. Not being married and especially not having kids helps. When I was in grad school I had lots of great conversations with others in my research group. But there were some working for my professor who never showed up and probably had a horrible time. In CS back then at least there was a definite meritocracy, and people who were considered smart by the faculty and the other students had a much easier time of it. My life wasn’t hellish (until I was actually writing, that is) but this was before PCs and email, so when I went home I went home. But a lot of the fun wouldn’t have been there if I had a family. My best memories were staying up all night helping the kids debug their programs in the days before they were due and heading down to IHOP at 2 am. Seminars are good also. The ones I went to were great, and I think that still is true since I used to sit in on one at Stanford as an invited industry guest who asked the students hard questions. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/65 "2014-04-09T19:52:39Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > I agree with the general thrust of your post - no, I don’t think this is likely to be a good idea - but heterodox schools tend to be much, much different in their material than orthodox schools (of which Chicago is probably one of the best examples). One of the reasons the different heterodox schools develop is distrust of mathematical-theoretical methods of modeling human behavior. > > That said, someone with three semesters of college calculus usually has the necessities for graduate econ study at your average program, although metrics tends to require a bit more on the linear algebra side. Metrics tends to be the first thing to go when schools lean heterodox (though I’m not familiar with Galbraith’s particular flavor of hetero, so this may not apply), since one of the main objections to modern economic theory is with aggregation and the philosophical underpinnings of applying statistical inference to human behavior. I’m not sure if I already said this (I had several posts in a row that got ate), but yes, that is one reason I would not be looking at an orthodox school. And you said it better than I did. I’d only add that in my IMHO the econometric modeling trend has at least a little to do with the higher status of the “hard sciences” relative to mere social science. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/66 "2014-04-09T22:33:06Z")
Just to clarify, of course part of grad school is interacting and collaborating with intelligent people who are interested in the same things you are. It’s an important part. However, Linus at one point seemed to be envisioning a couple of years of sitting at the feet of the master(s) and basking in their wisdom. The reality is that the master is going to give you a bit of direction and then expect you to bugger off and figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/67 "2014-04-09T23:18:41Z")
> [@CatherineZeta](#): > > Seriously or is this hyperbole? I’m sorry if it’s already been mentioned in the thread, I can’t find it, but what is your undergrad degree in again? I went to fashion school for college and I had to take four math classes plus chemistry and other classes which involved at least some math. > > Anyway, thanks to those who explained the economics of grad school. I was aware there are grants and stipends, I just assumed that there was a base tuition like with undergrad degrees. No, seriously. I learned to hate math in HS, took my last class as a Junior (Trig/Pre-calc) and haven’t touched a math textbook since. That would have been 1988. My undergrad school had no required courses, and they don’t teach math at law school. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/68 "2014-04-09T23:25:25Z")
> [@butterfiles](#): > > I cannot agree more with what PunditLisa said below about not needing to go to a university to learn. It’s actually one of the things I learned _by_ going to grad school. At a certain point, grad school becomes less about the subject itself than a grand show of academia. That point might be different at different universities, among varying fields, different depending on your advisors/professors, and different depending on location. > > However, going to a university grad program can provide you with motivation and with contacts. > > I wish there were grad programs just for people that want to gain knowledge - plain and simple. Not all of us want to pretend we’re contributing something new to the field of Shakespeare literature. What do you mean by “a grand show of academia”? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/69 "2014-04-09T23:30:08Z")
A lot of that engaging with fellow grad students and professors in intellectual discourse stuff gets old after awhile. Or at least it did for me. After awhile, I couldn’t stand all the dick-waving, navel-gazing debates. Or all the wank sessions to see who can drop the most names, cite the most papers and theories, and use the most advanced vocabulary in a five minute conversation. All the insecurity…all the arrogance…all the obvious acting and pretending and performance art. It is exhausting. Chances are you won’t get support for your ideas, at least not from your fellow graduate students, at least in the beginning. Everyone’s vying for the role of smartest guy (or girl) in the room. Every time you open up your mouth, someone’s going to challenge you. Any declarative statement, every hunch, every supposition you share…there will be some guy with a smirk on his face ready to correct you. Especially if you’re got the stink of imposter on you. Graduate students do a great job of policing their ranks. The psychological warfare is more stressful than anything else. This isn’t a bad thing. But it’s not exactly “supportive”. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/70 "2014-04-10T00:07:41Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Yeah, they call it “work” for a reason, whippersnapper. > > Here’s what I tell my kids: Either find something that you love to do, and truly not care how much it pays, OR get a job that pays well enough that you can do what you love to do in your free time. It’s very rare to be able to do both. > > What troubles me about your situation is that you seem to believe that another degree is going to be a magic elixir to your ambivalence. It’s not. You risk ending up just as frustrated, but tens of thousands of dollars more in debt. > > What does your wife think about all this? I’m 43, so I no longer qualify as a “whippersnapper”. Wish I did, though. 🙂 Debt’s not an issue. Like I said, I’m not going unless they pay me. I’m on your side. Work’s called work for a reason. And while I don’t like my job, plenty of folks have jobs that are worse than what I do. All I have to do is look around. Since you asked, my wife’s all in favor of it. She thinks I’ve got potential that’s unexploited, and that my job is a poor fit for me. On the other hand, she has a perfect job, for her, which she got by accident. She’s been promoted, as the company’s grown, several times, and is in line for another one. I don’t believe in magic elixirs. I do believe, though, that the purpose of live is to maximize happiness, and that necessarily (at least sometimes) involves taking risks. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/71 "2014-04-10T01:08:44Z")
I’ve followed this thread, and have a question for Linus: Do you believe that having a Ph.d will give your book gravitas? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/72 "2014-04-10T01:49:20Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > What they tell you and what ends up happening are often not the same thing. Yeah, I know that, as a general principle. Do you have something specific, relating to grad school you have in mind? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/73 "2014-04-10T01:57:09Z")
> [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > Don’t do it. I say this as someone who’s been in two of the top grad programs in the field (top 5? top 10?), and was good enough to land a prestigious postdoc. > > Grad school as a system is set up so that any problem a student encounters is likely to be fatal, and not something the student has a hope of overcoming. While you’re there, and for many years thereafter (if you go into academia), you live or die by a single person, your advisor. If your advisor arbitrarily decides not to give you comments on your dissertation prospectus, or your dissertation, you are probably hosed. If your advisor decides not to write you letters of recommendation, your career is hosed. The same thing is true for qualifying exams-- if they require specialized knowledge that only a certain professor can offer, and they choose not to offer it, you are hosed. You have _literally no recourse_. You can watch all of your years of hard work wiped out because of the indifference of a single fickle individual. I have watched each of these scenarios play out multiple times to me and my friends. > > If you want to go to gain more knowledge, you may be liable to be disappointed. Many of the professors in both of my grad programs towards students, and teaching, and learning. I wanted to develop close relationships with these people, and learn from them. I tried to reach out, and they ignored me, or didn’t have time for me. One of them went so far as to declare, on the first day of class, that helping students outside of class was not his job. > > And that’s even without going into the funding situation… > > At this point, I’d only advise getting a Ph.D. if you love the subject so much that you live and breathe it and couldn’t imagine life without it, or if you’re so independently wealthy that it doesn’t matter how long you take to finish, whether you finish, or what kind of financial support you get along the way. I hear what you’re saying. I think you left something out in this sentence: _Many of the professors in both of my grad programs towards students, and teaching, and learning._ Did you mean to say they didn’t give a shit about their grad students? That’s sort of the impression I get about professors and grad students, but I don’t know if it’s true or not. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/74 "2014-04-10T02:01:25Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Missing any given prerequisite is generally only a hurdle to admission, not completion. Since a grad student is generally defined by learning a lot, a sufficiently motivated student can, should, and must be able to fill any holes in their education. > > Missing a significant chunk of prerequisites, however, will make things **much** harder. Both in terms of admissions and surviving the early years. When I was applying for Computer Science PhD programs most of them suggested that if you don’t have a significant programming or theoretical CS background that you apply as a “non-degree seeking student” and take classes for a year or two until you’re caught up. They recommend this because not only will you have difficulty passing your courses; you frankly have no idea if you’ll actually enjoy what getting a PhD in your field entails until you’ve actually experienced the subject matter. (This didn’t apply to me so I don’t know the details, but it was in all of their FAQs). > > I’d recommend that before you commit to this you at least take a summer community college course in statistics or econometrics 101 or something just to make sure you don’t absolutely hate what you’ll be doing. It should also show admissions boards that you have the initiative to fill in your intellectual holes, regardless of your missing qualifications. I’m not sure about the “committing” part. If I don’t like it, I can leave. It’s not slavery. My attitude is I’m there for the resources they can provide for me. Selfish, I know, but given what I know about grad school, it seems appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/75 "2014-04-10T02:17:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Your will meet people, sure. But all of you will be phenomenally busy, and completely immersed in your own rabbit holes. Think about your workplace. How often do you actually engage in deep conversations about your field? Even though you are knee-deep in it, you have too much to do to really get to contemplative. And when you do get deep into things, chances are your interests are so specific (I studied road bandits in Chad, for example) that you aren’t going to get anything useful out of it. > > My point is that if you thing grad school is a good time to finally plow through that reading list and get your writing done, you are wrong. I didn’t read a single book for pleasure during the school year. Well, at my workplace, we talk about each other’s cases literally every day. And about the criminal justice system generally (specifically, how much it sucks). I don’t know if that qualifies as “deep,” or maybe it’s just a bad example. Depending on where I went, I’d be reading books written by the professors, I suspect. If I went to UMKC, I doubt there’d be students who weren’t there to study the same thing as me. It’s called, at least by some people, the Kansas City school of economics. (A reference to the “Chicago School”, I believe.) ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/76 "2014-04-10T02:38:34Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > All the programs you cite in your OP will require you to spend years learning to do complicated equations and at least one semester of econometrics. > > University of Missouri Kansas City: “The Interdisciplinary Ph.D. in economics consists at a minimum of 18 required coursework credit hours in economics including Economics 5506, 5551, 5601, 5602, 5625 and 5688. If the student has not taken the prerequisites to Economics 5601, 5602, and 5625, they will be required to take Economics 5501, 5502, 5521, and 5525.” 5521 and 5525 are econometrics. That’s right, the _prerequisites_ to the required coursework are econometrics. Link [here](http://cas.umkc.edu/economics/resources/grad_program_handbook%28Feb09%29.pdf). > > UT-Salt Lake: Requires quantitative methods and econometrics: link [here](http://economics.utah.edu/phd-program/phd-requirements.php). Additionally, on that page you will find a link to the math prerequisites they require for their grad-level classes. I am going to bet that they are past what you are interested in. > > UT-Austin: “Students who do not display satisfactory mathematical skills may be required to take additional mathematics courses in concert with the core theory courses.” And: Probability and Statistics, Mathematical Economics, and Econometrics are listed in the schedule [here.](http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/economics/phd/Ph.D-Program.php) It does say, “Under exceptional circumstances and with permission of the Graduate Advisor, a student may modify this schedule,” but I’m willing to bet that “I don’t want to do math” isn’t an exceptional circumstance. > > Umass-Amherst: " Students must complete the following courses: one semester of Macroeconomics, two semesters of Microeconomics, one semester of Political Economy, one semester of Mathematical Methods, two semesters of Econometrics, and one semester of Economic History." Exercise for the reader: find the link yourself. > > I will also say that I have taken intermediate-level microeconomics at the college level (not the grad school level) and it required multiple-variable calculus. I assume, although I have no personal experience, that some statistics will also be required to take graduate-level macro and micro, all of which are required for every program you listed in your OP. > > Also: why did I have to do all that research? Not to be rude, but you didn’t have to: you chose to do so on your own. > [@](#): > > Why didn’t you? I have. I’m not sure how much detail is needed here, but the UT program would be LBJ School of Public Policy, not the Econ department. As for the others, I’d just say that 1.) I’m already a non-traditional student. If they don’t want me, they don’t want me; 2.) I’m not convinced one or more of the schools might not take me, if they thought I was a good candidate for other reasons; and 3.) I guess if I apply and they reject me, I don’t have a decision to make. But I wasn’t really asking about how to get in, I was asking about whether it was a good decision for me. > [@](#): > > I would think this would be a minimum condition for entering a Ph.D. program, that you be able to perform some independent study into what the program actually required of you. I apologize if you feel like I’ve wasted your time. > [@](#): > > (I also have to say that my Ph.D. experience was exactly opposite of others’ in this thread: I found it a wonderfully collaborative experience and spent a lot of time talking to other people about really interesting things. It’s the one thing I really miss about academia. But I was in physics, and I had a wonderful advisor at a school that was really committed to that kind of thing. I certainly have friends who did Ph.D.'s who had a much more negative experience; it varies a lot with advisor, school, and field.) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/77 "2014-04-10T03:07:41Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Well, at my workplace, we talk about each other’s cases literally every day. And about the criminal justice system generally (specifically, how much it sucks). I don’t know if that qualifies as “deep,” or maybe it’s just a bad example. > > Depending on where I went, I’d be reading books written by the professors, I suspect. > > If I went to UMKC, I doubt there’d be students who weren’t there to study the same thing as me. It’s called, at least by some people, the Kansas City school of economics. (A reference to the “Chicago School”, I believe.) Sure you talk about nuts and bolts and complain. But how often do you deep dive into groundbreaking ideas in law? Or spend hours untangling the philosophy of it? Maybe you guys do, but that’d be unusual. As for interests-- yes, your peers will be in the same field as you, but you don’t just study economics. You study one particular corner, and you may not get much out of other peoples corner. To give an example, I went into grad school wanting to pin down a particular phenomena in Zambia. My program seemed like a good fit. But when I got there, I discovered my program had a bizarre obsession with Peru. Every case study, every research opportunity, every anecdote in class, every off the cuff remark was about Peru. I read thousands of pages about Peru. It was all useful and relevant, but it was a lot of time learning about Peru and zero time learning about Zambia I managed to wedge-- sometime awkwardly-- Zambia into my work, and I eventually wrote what I needed to write on Zambia. But it wasn’t a direct route and much of the journey down Zambia road was solo. I’m not saying don’t go-- lord knows I did. But it’s not an intellectual paradise. It’s a grind, like any other. An occasionally very rewarding grind, but a grind none the less. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/78 "2014-04-10T03:20:40Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I’ve followed this thread, and have a question for Linus: Do you believe that having a Ph.d will give your book gravitas? Did you see this Linus? Or did you address the topic already? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/79 "2014-04-10T06:22:34Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > **Linus** , you’ve said a couple of times that you “want to write a book.” That’s great, but it still doesn’t answer the question of what you want to do to pay the mortgage. Academic types who write books do so either because they’re in tenure or tenure track professorships at large research universities and have some time built into their workload for research (ha!), or they write their books in their spare time. Very few people make money worth mentioning by writing books. I know a lot of people with Ph.Ds, and I know a fair number of people who have written books, and my understanding is that the only person I know who’s making money off books has largely bailed on academia and is writing romance novels. > > A few counterpoints to things others have said here: I did grad school with kids and I didn’t find it as horrible as Smeghead says, but it did mean I turned down a lot of opportunities, half-assed a lot of other things, and took for-freaking-ever to graduate. Also, I did enjoy talking to other people about their work and research interests while in grad school, so it does happen. > > Whole-hearted agreement with others that any econ grad program is going to involve lots and lots of math. Well, I don’t know how much detail to go into about my own financial situation, or my family’s. I will say my wife can do her work wherever she wants, but that moving to Salt Lake would improve her situation, career-wise. I’ve also said I won’t go into debt, and won’t do it without at least minimal financial support. If I went to LBJ, I could probably continue doing at least a little of what I’m doing now, and without the huge overhead I’m currently paying, I’d about break even. If we did move, that would mean selling the house, which would be a huge pain, but we’d be looking at some capital gains, as well. Not everyone agrees every Econ program involves econometrics. Ace said (paraphrasing) heterodox programs generally reject that approach. That’s consistent with what I’ve seen as well. As far as paying the mortgage, if I can’t sell books, get a job with a foundation or think tank, work for the federal government, become a professor, do some combination of those things, or come up with another plan between now and then, I’d have to go back to doing what I’m doing now. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491/80 "2014-04-10T10:55:20Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Yeah, I know that, as a general principle. Do you have something specific, relating to grad school you have in mind? It is technically true that my time is my own and I set my own schedule. I could, in theory, work 9-5 every day, or even less, and have plenty of time for my children. However, the simple truth is that I can see exactly how much work I need to finish before I can graduate, and if I’d like to get my degree before I retire, I need to push myself to work many long hours. So while people can and sometimes do play up the first aspect, it’s the second that doesn’t get as much attention, at least when you’re being recruited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-go-to-grad-school/685491.md?page=5)