# Should I keep reading A Song of Fire and Ice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703 "2005-08-26T05:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/1 "2005-08-26T05:54:27Z")
I just finished _A Game of Thrones_ and thought it was…well…fine. Readable, entertaining, what have you, and yet I somehow have no particular desire to find out what happens next. If the sequels get better, I’d happily read them. On the other hand, I could also stop where I am and not suffer for it. On the other other hand, it seems like everybody sez that this series is, like, the best thing since sliced Tolkien. So tell me: Do the sequels get better? (And is it me, or is a lot of modern heroic fantasy basically a collage artform? It seems all too easy to play spot-the-standard-plot-item.) ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/2 "2005-08-26T06:14:54Z")
It does get better. The third book is really good. But then you are stuck waiting for him to write another book and he is sloooooooow. If the 1st book did not do it for you then I would advise you to drop it as I thought the 1st book was pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/3 "2005-08-26T06:22:39Z")
For my money, this series is the best fantasy out on the market today. I’ll happily be in line in November to get my hands on book #4.1. It took me awhile to get into it as well **Hunter Hawk**. I would estimate I spent about 200 pages of book #1 wondering what was so great about this book. That’s a lot of time for me to devote to a story I kept thinking was just “meh.” But once I got hooked, that was it. I just had to keep reading. The greatest attribute of Martin is his nearly superhuman feat of remembering details. What they did, who they talked to, what they said, their mannerisms. Martin never drops the ball. It’s so easy in book II to remember exactly who everyone is. Everything that happens he remembers and references in various ways. that allows the reader to say “oh yeah…THAT’S what happened, which means that this character feels this way about this person.” The psychological interplay between the characters works well because even bit players feel fully fleshed out. You can look back upon the stories and think “well…not much happened here.” But I look at them as chess pieces. Martin pushs them around the board, defining their various characteristics and abilities, and prepares them for the battle to come. So yes, I would recommend you continue. And, for the record, I’ve never been that enamoured with Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/4 "2005-08-26T08:33:35Z")
I would say it intensifies after the first book. Whether that’s a good thing or not is a matter of opinion. I think it’s great. It gets darker, that’s for sure. He did a lot of bad things to his main characters in the first book - don’t expect that to change. He gets meaner as time goes on. I love it. And, **Satasha** , the next book is FINALLY coming out in the US in November. October in the UK. Bastards. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/5 "2005-08-26T13:52:54Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > The greatest attribute of Martin is his nearly superhuman feat of remembering details. What they did, who they talked to, what they said, their mannerisms. Martin never drops the ball. It’s so easy in book II to remember exactly who everyone is. Everything that happens he remembers and references in various ways. that allows the reader to say “oh yeah…THAT’S what happened, which means that this character feels this way about this person.” You nailed it. And it’s a good thing Martin does this, since it’s been so long between books. Another good thing he does that I appreciate is to vary the action/battle scenes. Sometimes they’re detailed and happening now, and other times they’re briefly (but vividly) described in dialogue – you know how it turned out but without pages of detail (for those who aren’t interested in tactics and stuff). As for the OP, I think if you didn’t particularly care for the first book and you’re not invested in the characters, then the series probably isn’t your tankard of mead. Read some Steven Erickson or Gene Wolfe instead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/6 "2005-08-26T14:17:29Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It took me awhile to get into it as well **Hunter Hawk**. Same here. I bought the first book, started reading it, said “meh”, put it down, picked it up a couple more times, never got beyond the first 50 pages. Then one day I picked it up, and read all the books in about 4 days. I couldn’t put them down, and seriously wanted to KILL Martin when I found out that he hadn’t finished the fookin’ series after 5+ years. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/7 "2005-08-26T15:40:43Z")
Adding to the general chorus: I consider it one of the best fantasy series ever. However, it’s much like Neal Stephenson in that if it’s just not working for you, then don’t waste hours trying to convince yourself that you like it. Move on, and revisit it in a couple years. Maybe it will click for you then, maybe not. I don’t think it’s for everyone. Especially not suitable for those that tend to pick a “favorite character.” This is a brutally real series about mass warfare, and the things that happen during war. You don’t want to be happily reading about your favorite character Bob\*, then buy the next book only to learn that his family’s been killed, he’s now blind, and was forced to eat his dog. - not a real character, no spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/8 "2005-08-26T17:01:30Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > AEspecially not suitable for those that tend to pick a “favorite character.” This is a brutally real series about mass warfare, and the things that happen during war. You don’t want to be happily reading about your favorite character Bob\*, then buy the next book only to learn that his family’s been killed, he’s now blind, and was forced to eat his dog. > > - not a real character, no spoiler. Yeah, no kidding. I’ve rarely read an author so willing to kill off just about any character at any time. How many times has George killed off what I considered to be the main character, only to be replaced by someone else I thought was a main character, only to have that one die, too? (I hope that’s not too much of a spoiler. George likes to kill people.) ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/9 "2005-08-26T17:09:30Z")
My favorite thing about this series is the way my attitude toward the characters changes. I spent two and a half books enjoying my hatred for Jaime Lannister, for example, and then suddenly he’s not so bad when I see things through his eyes, and I might even feel sorry for him. But yes–don’t get too attached to anybody. When I started the series, my fantasy experience consisted almost exclusively of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time. Jordan doesn’t kill people, and Martin was a rude, albeit welcome, awakening. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/10 "2005-08-26T17:14:54Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > So tell me: Do the sequels get better? Well, yes and no. Of the three books out, the third is easily my favorite, for the amount of stuff that happens and the general intensity of it. But I’d say the books are pretty much the same in terms of quality. Of course, for me, since I liked the first book a lot from the very beginning, that’s a good thing. But if the first book didn’t blow you away, I wouldn’t necessarily expect the following books to. For what it’s worth, I probably wouldn’t continue with a series that I read the first book of if it didn’t thrill me. In fact, that very thing happened to me with Harry Potter. Someone gave me the first two books as a gift, I read them and thought they were OK, and I’ve never felt the need to purchase the sequels and read them. > [@](#): > > (And is it me, or is a lot of modern heroic fantasy basically a collage artform? It seems all too easy to play spot-the-standard-plot-item.) Yeah, and that’s one of the things I really like about _A Song of Ice and Fire_, it never seemed predictable in the way most modern fantasy does. Other people may feel differently, but if you expected the death of Ned then you’re a better man than me. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/11 "2005-08-26T19:19:14Z")
Just joining in the chorus…great series so far. VERY realistic. Also, probably not for everyone. I got my wife to read it and she nearly killed me when one after another of her favorites bit the dust or had other unhappy things befall them. I can’t wait for the next book. If you like happy endings and characters who go through adversity but then get all the goodies at the end…well, this isn’t your series. 😛 Also, for those of you who like to enjoy audio books after you’ve read them, there is an unabridged audio series for these books that’s pretty well read. I usually try and buy audio books after I’ve read the book (currently listening to Half Blood Prince in fact) to enjoy on my long commutes into the city…and this one is definitely worth the expense if you are into that also. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/12 "2005-08-26T19:38:58Z")
The best part about your spoiler Amok was they way he handled it all. It wasnt some big huge plot thing that took two chapters. It just kinda happened before you knew it. Loved it, while truly hating what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/13 "2005-08-26T20:16:20Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > The best part about your spoiler Amok was they way he handled it all. It wasnt some big huge plot thing that took two chapters. It just kinda happened before you knew it. Loved it, while truly hating what happened. Yeah, and especially because it looked like everything was going to turn out, well… not fine, but at least better. And then that little bastard Joffrey decided to have his own way and the reader gets punched in the gut. Definitely a great (and painful) moment ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/14 "2005-08-26T20:24:12Z")
I felt the same when Rob got his. I thought I knew where the story was going and how things would be then BLAM! Punched in the gut. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/15 "2005-08-26T20:38:42Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I felt the same when XXXXXXXX. I thought I knew where the story was going and how things would be then BLAM! Punched in the gut. > > -XT Now THAT’S a spoiler. Just sayin’ is all. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/16 "2005-08-26T20:47:00Z")
Ahhh! Spoiler boxes, people! Great series! I freaking love it. Blood. bath. My friend and I even got my friend’s wife, who doesn’t like fantasy as a genre, to read it and now _she_ loves it. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/17 "2005-08-26T20:47:56Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > The best part about your spoiler Amok was they way he handled it all. It wasnt some big huge plot thing that took two chapters. It just kinda happened before you knew it. Loved it, while truly hating what happened. “Well, I know THAT didn’t happen because it happened off camera and therefore he gave himself an out.” Indicator and indicator over and over and until it was flat out stated that yes, THAT did happen…well, I still figured he was weaseling. Nope. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Corii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Corii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/18 "2005-08-26T22:40:22Z")
> [@Amok](#): > > Yeah, and especially because it looked like everything was going to turn out, well… not fine, but at least better. And then that little bastard Joffrey decided to have his own way and the reader gets punched in the gut. Definitely a great (and painful) moment Hey, are you the same Amok who drew all those fantastic portraits for Song of Ice and Fire? If so good on you, those are lovely! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/19 "2005-08-27T02:08:44Z")
Sorry…I don’t know the encoding for spoilers. My bad…appologies all around. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703/20 "2005-08-27T02:33:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Sorry…I don’t know the encoding for spoilers. My bad…appologies all around. > > -XT I hardly think that spoilers matter in a series that has been out for years. Should we not comment on _Pulp Fiction_, or _Born to Run_, or _The Innocents Abroad_ because _somebody_ out there has not seen/heard/read it? Nonsense. [spoiler] This is a spoiler, but take out the spaces [/ spoiler] This is a spoiler, without spaces I’ll probably read the fourth book; the series is OK. My issue is going to be if the library stocks up on the first three. I’m going to want to reread to refresh my memory, and I don’t like the series enough to buy it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-keep-reading-a-song-of-fire-and-ice/318703.md?page=2)