# Should I let my 13-year old listen to these heavy metal groups? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508 "2010-01-26T14:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Danja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@Danja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danja)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/102 "2012-10-06T16:44:00Z")
I’m honestly impressed that your kid was confident enough to listen to Dragonforce “in public” at 13 years old. That kind of melodic fantasy music was derided pretty heavily by my peers all through high school (04- 08). I wasn’t into it but if I had been, I don’t think I would have been open about it. Kudos to your kid. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/103 "2012-10-06T16:47:41Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Dragonforce is practically a gateway band for fantasy RPGs. =P > > Seriously, just to add my anecdote to the thread, when I was that age it was my mom being concerned that I abruptly transitioned from “listens to country music and 50s-60s rock with her” to the first albums I bought myself being Green Day’s “Dookie” and Aerosmith’s “Get a Grip”–the former of which has cartoony album art of dogs throwing poop at a busytown-style city, and the latter of which has disc art that’s just black-and-white nipples. I’m fine, and truth be told I didn’t get depressed and agnostic until my college years when you’re supposed to do so anyway. > > When he’s old enough that the “Explicit Lyrics” tags don’t bother you so much (with proper vetting, and it’s mostly language/fantasy violence and not sex/drug references) and if he still likes this style of music, you might be able to earn cool dad points by suggesting Manowar ([Triumph of Steel](http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Steel-Manowar/dp/B000002IU9/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_c) being my favorite, for the 28-minute Illiad-based rock epic that’s the highlight of the disc). That’s interesting - Dookie and Get a Grip were my introduction to rock music as well. I was probably about 13. I was also a fundamentalist churchgoing Christian and a straight-A student. Listening to that stuff was a great outlet for me considering all of the ways I repressed myself. Now I’m 29, Buddhist, have an MSW, a good job and a good marriage. I think that in mosts cases music is just harmless escapism. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/104 "2012-10-07T03:15:20Z")
I shoot concerts by various branches of the School of Rock, so I know plenty of kids who not only listen to heavy metal, they _play_ it. Most of them are high achievers rather than stoners. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/105 "2012-10-07T11:59:00Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Oh, and Rise Against are perfectly innocent, so no worries there, either! 😉 > > If you don’t want him to listen to any white-supremacist groups, keep an eye out for the following bands: Burzum, Absurd, Graveland, Arghoslent, Grand Belial’s Key, Spear of Longinus and the whole Blazebirth Hall gang. Yep, there’s plenty of racist BM, and punk for that matter, out there, but most of it won’t be encountered unless someone’s actively looking for it. I’ll nitpick Burzum though - whilst Varg Vikernes, the sole member, is an outspoken white separatist (and convicted murderer and arsonist) there’s nothing actually objectionable in his lyrics. If the OP, or anyone else, ever wants an overview of any obscure metal bands, try [this site](http://www.metal-archives.com/). Among other things, it prominently lists the lyrical themes the bands use. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/106 "2012-10-07T21:31:10Z")
Agreed about Burzum… he is a white nationalist (Norwegian) but his albums are about ancient Norwegian mythos (at least the pre-jail ones) and don’t really touch modern politics. Besides which, the lyrics are completely incomprehensible on listening… in fact Burzum and other Black Metal bands often disapprove of their lyrics being posted online because they are supposed to be a type of magic on their own. I have no idea what 99% of the metal I listen to is about. It’s not for that to me. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/107 "2012-10-07T21:33:56Z")
> [@Danja](#): > > I’m honestly impressed that your kid was confident enough to listen to Dragonforce “in public” at 13 years old. That kind of melodic fantasy music was derided pretty heavily by my peers all through high school (04- 08). I wasn’t into it but if I had been, I don’t think I would have been open about it. Kudos to your kid. Maybe because I grew up listening to Iron Maiden albums as they were released, but that dragon force track that was linked way up thread, had me thinking thats who I was listening to. Not quite the rhyme of the ancient mariner, or run to the hills, but close enough that I would not be surprised if maiden was a major influence with that group. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/108 "2012-10-08T03:59:13Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > That’s interesting - Dookie and Get a Grip were my introduction to rock music as well. I was probably about 13. I was also a fundamentalist churchgoing Christian and a straight-A student. Listening to that stuff was a great outlet for me considering all of the ways I repressed myself. Now I’m 29, Buddhist, have an MSW, a good job and a good marriage. I think that in mosts cases music is just harmless escapism. So basically, you’re me, but a few years younger and less of an engineer. =P ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/109 "2012-10-08T04:00:41Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Maybe because I grew up listening to Iron Maiden albums as they were released, but that dragon force track that was linked way up thread, had me thinking thats who I was listening to. > > Not quite the rhyme of the ancient mariner, or run to the hills, but close enough that I would not be surprised if maiden was a major influence with that group. As a Dragonforce fan, there’s definitely a lot of both Iron Maiden and Manowar in there. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/110 "2012-10-08T04:04:51Z")
> [@robby](#): > > The only criteria my wife and I have really established for our son is that he can’t buy songs on iTunes or albums labeled “Parental Advisory - Explicit Content.” Deal’s a deal. He apparently get his side; now you have to. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/111 "2012-10-08T16:34:10Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ll nitpick Burzum though - whilst Varg Vikernes, the sole member, is an outspoken white separatist (and convicted murderer and arsonist) there’s nothing actually objectionable in his lyrics. Most of his lyrics aren’t objectionable. But since you write that there’s “_nothing_ actually objectionable in his lyrics”, I gotta call bullshit. For starters, many parents (including the OP, I guess?) would probably find the line “[war between the races](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwpQriG4MYQ)” pretty darn objectionable. Not to mention “[fremmad for vårt blod og all vår jord](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaeIE5IfmY)! / fylking fremmad! fylking marsj!”, and “fell den feige fiendeflokken” and “la deres blod gjødsle vår jord!” (Translated into English: “forwards for our blood and all our soil! / army forwards! army march!” and “slay the cowardly enemy crowd!” and “let their blood fertilize our soil.”) And then there are the lyrics Vikernes wrote for Darkthrone’s _Over Fjell Og Gjennom Torner_, with the infamous closing lines: “[Den norrøne rase må slakte den andre / nar blåmenn dunker for tungt pa var dør.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1eMYS7exIk)” (Translated into English: “The Norse race must slaughter the other / when niggers pound too heavily on our door.”) … And I’m not even going to start with Vikernes’ “official statement” with regards to the [Breivik shootings](http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/war_in_europe01.shtml). > [@rogerbox](#): > > Agreed about Burzum… he is a white nationalist (Norwegian) but his albums are about ancient Norwegian mythos (at least the pre-jail ones) and don’t really touch modern politics. Besides which, the lyrics are completely incomprehensible on listening… in fact Burzum and other Black Metal bands often disapprove of their lyrics being posted online because they are supposed to be a type of magic on their own. What are you talking about? Vikernes’ clearly does _not_ disapprove of his lyrics being posted online, seeing how they are available _[on his very own official homepage](http://www.burzum.org/eng/discography/)_. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/112 "2012-10-08T17:33:30Z")
Your son has some pretty good taste. Let him listen to what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/113 "2012-10-08T17:37:40Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > For starters, many parents (including the OP, I guess?) would probably find the line “[war between the races](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwpQriG4MYQ)” pretty darn objectionable. I always understood that to be a reference to Ragnarok, rather than to anything in the modern world. > [@](#): > > Not to mention “[fremmad for vårt blod og all vår jord](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaeIE5IfmY)! / fylking fremmad! fylking marsj!”, and “fell den feige fiendeflokken” and “la deres blod gjødsle vår jord!” (Translated into English: “forwards for our blood and all our soil! / army forwards! army march!” and “slay the cowardly enemy crowd!” and “let their blood fertilize our soil.”) I’ll give you that one, I’ve never looked at the translations of the more recent albums. He’s an interesting character. A highly intelligent, extremely articulate racist arsehole, who happens to be a stunning musician, and a murderer. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/114 "2012-10-08T19:17:00Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > (Translated into English: “The Norse race must slaughter the other / when niggers pound too heavily on our door.”) I don’t know Norweigan. Are you sure it is “niggers” because multiple people claiming to understand Norweigan on youtube claim it’s “black man” or “Black stranger”. > [@](#): > > … And I’m not even going to start with Vikernes’ “official statement” with regards to the [Breivik shootings](http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/war_in_europe01.shtml). For sure he is a horrible racist murdering excuse for a human being. I just like his music. > [@](#): > > What are you talking about? Vikernes’ clearly does _not_ disapprove of his lyrics being posted online, seeing how they are available _[on his very own official homepage](http://www.burzum.org/eng/discography/)_. I will have to look. It’s possible I was confusing Varg with another band I like, but I know that some of the bands I like don’t like their lyrics being posted (or at least didn’t in the early 90’s), I will try to find who I was talking about and correct myself. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/115 "2012-10-08T21:05:34Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I don’t know Norweigan. Are you sure it is “niggers” because multiple people claiming to understand Norweigan on youtube claim it’s “black man” or “Black stranger”. Hmmm, let’s see here. “Blåmenn” literally translates as “blue men”, from back in the day when “blue” and “black” was pretty much the same thing. I guess translating “blåmenn” as “negroes” rather than “niggers” would make sense, too? (I speak both Swedish and Danish, but my Norwegian is admittedly a bit rusty.) Either way, I’m sure you’ll agree that, considering the context - i.e., that these “blåmenn” must be “slaughtered” (there is absolutely no ambiguity about the word “slakte”, meaning “to slaughter”) - it’s a pretty damn offensive line, to say the least. > [@rogerbox](#): > > For sure he is a horrible racist murdering excuse for a human being. I just like his music. Oh, don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love his music, too! ---
**Author:** ![Rocky\_Felarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rocky\_Felarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocky_Felarian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/116 "2012-12-09T18:12:35Z")
Hey Robby, my parents felt the same way when I got into metal, they despised the music; well it’s better the dumb rap and stuff. If he’s been acting weird after metal, time to stop it, and be sure that he doesn’t listen to bands like Ozzy or Marilyn Manson or bands along those lines, music has profound effect on people but those two guys are bad influences. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/117 "2012-12-10T05:00:02Z")
> [@Rocky\_Felarian](#): > > Hey Robby, > my parents felt the same way when I got into metal, they despised the music; well it’s better the dumb rap and stuff. If he’s been acting weird after metal, time to stop it, and be sure that he doesn’t listen to bands like Ozzy or Marilyn Manson or bands along those lines, music has profound effect on people but those two guys are bad influences. You bumped this thread to scaremonger on two acts as harmless as Ozzy “I am a walking anti-drug PSA” Ozbourne and Marilyn “I’ve been reduced to burning bibles on people’s front lawns in random Nebraska towns to try to stay shocking” Manson? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/118 "2012-12-10T05:21:21Z")
> [@Rocky\_Felarian](#): > > Hey Robby, > my parents felt the same way when I got into metal, they despised the music; well it’s better the dumb rap and stuff. If he’s been acting weird after metal, time to stop it, and be sure that he doesn’t listen to bands like Ozzy or Marilyn Manson or bands along those lines, music has profound effect on people but those two guys are bad influences. LOL! First off, the kid in the OP is probably16 yrs old now, definitely old enough. Oh, and I bought my kid his first Black Sabbath CD when he was 10 yrs old for Christmas. You would not believe how he turned out at 14. Top of his whole school in math, 4 As, two Bs (89% and 88%), does volunteer work because he wants to, not because he has to, is polite and plays a mean fiddle. I’m thinking the bad influence that he got from Ozzy is the fact the often he “forgets” to do the dishes until I’ve nagged him. Yes, a wee stealth brag about my heavy metal listening, hard rocking teenage son. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/119 "2012-12-10T18:44:41Z")
Just felt compelled to share [13 year olds _playing_ metal](http://youtu.be/IopnNPhRzoA) - and doing a very creditable job of it. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/120 "2012-12-11T21:15:19Z")
Robby, has your son expressed any interest in _playing_ any music? Both of my sons (as well as myself) all like different forms of metal and/or hard rockand my youngest wanted to learn how. Once I set him up with an Epiphone SG (Angus’ primary axe), and an amp with a few lessons he took to it like a duck to water! That was three years ago and now he’s playing Hendrix, Rush, and Blink-182 in addition to Sons of Bodom and Slipknot. Once you start playing, it’s hard to stop! ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508/121 "2012-12-12T07:03:03Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > Robby, > has your son expressed any interest in _playing_ any music? Both of my sons (as well as myself) all like different forms of metal and/or hard rockand my youngest wanted to learn how. Once I set him up with an Epiphone SG (Angus’ primary axe), and an amp with a few lessons he took to it like a duck to water! That was three years ago and now he’s playing Hendrix, Rush, and Blink-182 in addition to Sons of Bodom and Slipknot. > Once you start playing, it’s hard to stop! If it is an option, I can endorse the School of Rock. They have private lessons, but more importantly, group practice. I’ve seen and shot more than sixty concerts by various School of Rock locations over a period of years and I’m amazed at the growth of the students musically. As the founder of the school said “It’s the difference between shooting hoops and playing basketball”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-let-my-13-year-old-listen-to-these-heavy-metal-groups/526508.md?page=7)