# Should I say something? (possible marriage interference) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777 "2013-09-13T16:59:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/41 "2013-09-18T18:51:34Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think every Catholic family has a story about a covert baptism. If he’s truly Atheist, then a couple of old ladies ran some water over his babies head, no big deal. My general attitude is, if it gives an old woman comfort, and doesn’t harm the baby, then let it go. No who else did a covert baptism? Archie Bunker. It was an All in the Family plot. As for me I’m not getting involved in the discussion about not getting involved. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/42 "2013-09-18T18:53:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Once you get old enough, can you reject whatever imprint a baptism gave to you? Is there a method of unbaptizing oneself? Hell. the Mormons baptize the dead. Pretty damn hard to object to that, at least for the dead guy. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/43 "2013-09-18T18:56:16Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > Meetup is from a site called [Meetup.com](http://Meetup.com), whereby you search for things that interest you and “meet up” with groups of people who share similar interests. Well, unless your common interest is “idle gossip” or “family therapy” then I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask that the discussion stay on topic. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/44 "2013-09-18T19:50:16Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > WTF is a meetup? > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > This is so clearly none of your business. Hey man, no need to be rude! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/45 "2013-09-18T19:53:44Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > One thing that stands out is that the husband has decided he’s an atheist, and **he doesn’t want his wife going to church any more (so she doesn’t)** or the kids exposed to organized religion unless they pursue it on their own. So, Mom and Grandma baptized the baby in the kitchen sink, and this has of course been \*\*kept secret from him. \*\* Whoa. Huge flippin frantically waving red flags. Husband can do whatever he wants, but has no place dictating to his wife whether or not she goes to church. That combined with the fact that wife feels a need to keep secrets from him tells me that he’s very likely a controlling fuck who either already is or is on his way to becoming an abusive fuck. I sure as hell wouldn’t tattle on them to the husband, because god only knows how that could spiral out of control in some very bad ways. I might make a quiet, discrete query to wife or grandma, asking if everything was okay, and did they need any social or DV services. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/46 "2013-09-18T20:23:07Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Actually, he claimed to be a devout Catholic until after the baby was born. :dubious: I’m sorry, but I find this claim (assumedly by the grandmother) to be almost impossible to believe, and to be frank I find the whole “controlling atheist” thing to be tough to swallow as well unless he’s some borderline sociopath. Speaking from my own experience being non-religious is a frame of mind where you are a very tiny fish in a large and potentially unfriendly sea of belief, and it means almost by definition you have to get along and go along. Staking out a militant “no church”, “no baptism” position to your believing wife is something I have a real tough time seeing a real life married atheist doing. I think there has to be lot more to this story than MIL is letting on. And you should still stay out of it. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/47 "2013-09-18T20:45:28Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I know this is a radical notion, but have you considered the merits of hanging out with people with normal social boundaries? Well, we all post on the Dope, so…what are normal social boundaries? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/48 "2013-09-18T21:24:51Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I don’t see anything wrong with you expressing your opinion to this woman about maybe she should not be so open about some of the issues in her daughter’s marriage. Because honestly if it was my mom going around blabbing my about marital problems to all her friends and acquaintances I would be extremely upset . And I see nothing wrong with you expressing that opinion. I don’t think that you’re asking if we think that you should go ahead and confront this couple directly. I understand that all you want to do is let the woman know that sharing this information about her daughter’s marriage is maybe it’s not the most kosher thing to do & I think you have every right to tell her if you want. I do not know this couple; I did meet the daughter once but I wouldn’t classify that as knowing her. I wouldn’t recognize her if I saw her on the street. Telling either of them was NEVER on my radar, and wouldn’t have been if I did know them personally. I just wanted advice on how to tactfully tell this woman that she probably shouldn’t be discussing her daughter’s marriage, let alone with people who don’t know them, or in some cases her all that well. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/49 "2013-09-19T14:12:52Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Hell. the Mormons baptize the dead. Pretty damn hard to object to that, at least for the dead guy. We do it as an opportunity for them to accept or reject the baptism. We are a proxy for the dead who did not get baptized while alive, and it gives them a chance to accept it if they want to, since they did not get a chance before. We don’t assume they automatically accept the proxy baptism, but we also believe that God is just and wouldn’t take the opportunity of choice from them just because they didn’t get a chance in this life to have that choice. So yeah, they can object if they want. We believe that choice and accountability supersedes death. > [@](#): > > Jesus taught that baptism is an essential gateway to heaven (see John 3:5). This often prompts the age-old question of what happens to the billions of people who never have that opportunity. > > Mormons believe the answer lies in the doctrine of baptism for the dead, a practice of early Christians (see 1 Corinthians 15:29), but lost to the modern Christian world. For those who have died without the opportunity to hear, understand, and accept the full gospel of Jesus Christ, proxy baptism offers the opportunity of eternal life with God. Baptisms for the dead are an indication of God’s love for all His children. > > A proxy baptism is an offering only. Such a gesture cannot make a person a member of any particular church or a Christian in the next life. A person who has died retains the right in the next life to make choices, and is free to accept or reject the baptism. Mormons believe the acceptance of the baptismal rite opens the way to continued progression for the departed soul. > > Baptisms for the dead are performed in Mormon temples. > > By Church policy, Church members may submit names for temple baptisms only if they are related. The Church does not accept for proxy baptism the names of celebrities or other prominent people unrelated to Church members. Nor does the Church list any deceased persons who have received proxy baptism as “Mormons” on its membership records. > > The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not list any deceased persons as “Mormons” on its membership records. [http://mormontopics.org/eng/baptismdead?gclid=CICbkvbS17kCFWJp7Aodn1wAwA&CID=33081010&s\_kwcid=AL!3737!3!23873303175!p!!g!!baptism%20for%20the%20dead&ef\_id=UGxhtwAAFGkO9hP6:20130919141514:s](http://mormontopics.org/eng/baptismdead?gclid=CICbkvbS17kCFWJp7Aodn1wAwA&CID=33081010&s_kwcid=AL!3737!3!23873303175!p!!g!!baptism%20for%20the%20dead&ef_id=UGxhtwAAFGkO9hP6:20130919141514:s) So meh 😛 /threadjack ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/50 "2013-09-19T14:24:18Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > To be fair grandma may be exaggerating the extent of the husband’s anti religion sentiments and how he expresses them within the marriage or flubbing some of the details when she explains this to people, to justify her interference in the marriage, and because she can’t stand him. Or maybe the daughter is lying to the mom and she doesn’t want to go to church anymore either, and she’s using her husband as an excuse. Weirder things have happened Yes. You don’t really know what’s happening inside a marriage. You only get grandma’s viewpoint, a biased one at best. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/51 "2013-09-19T14:34:41Z")
“I find myself uncomfortable talking about someone else’s personal choices, Like this. I would not care for my family to share such private things with others. You’ll have to forgive me, I must run…” It’s a lot easier than you’re making it. Open you mouth and be honest with her about how you feel and why. Being respectful and considerate. Then make your excuse and exit. Leave her to consider your view, rather than discuss or defend, her own. It may have no effect whatsoever, but at least you’ll feel better for having said something. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/52 "2013-09-19T16:55:39Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > We do it as an opportunity for them to accept or reject the baptism. We are a proxy for the dead who did not get baptized while alive, and it gives them a chance to accept it if they want to, since they did not get a chance before. We don’t assume they automatically accept the proxy baptism, but we also believe that God is just and wouldn’t take the opportunity of choice from them just because they didn’t get a chance in this life to have that choice. So yeah, they can object if they want. We believe that choice and accountability supersedes death. I have a suggestion - why not let the dead person and God work it out? Don’t try to offer it to my Jewish ancestors many of whom were no doubt oppressed and tormented by nice Christians just trying to help them achieve salvation. I can go on, but I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/53 "2013-09-19T17:00:17Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > We don’t assume they automatically accept the proxy baptism, but we also believe that God is just and wouldn’t take the opportunity of choice from them just because they didn’t get a chance in this life to have that choice. Would a just God take the opportunity from them if their presently-living descendant happens to be an atheist, or otherwise objectionable/not Mormon? If not, what need is there for living Mormons to get involved? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/54 "2013-09-19T17:17:01Z")
It’s not through [meetup.com](http://meetup.com); it’s simply a group of us who get together at a craft store and, shall we say, do crafts. It’s very informal and we can come and go as we please. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/55 "2013-09-19T18:16:28Z")
I provided a link for more info. I don’t want to keep highjacking this thread on a tangent. I was responding to something that was brought up by someone else. /not responding to this further ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/56 "2013-09-19T18:55:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’m sorry, but I find this claim (assumedly by the grandmother) to be almost impossible to believe, and to be frank I find the whole “controlling atheist” thing to be tough to swallow as well unless he’s some borderline sociopath. Yeah. My dad is an atheist and he did lie to my mom about that until shortly after they were married. She wouldn’t have married him otherwise. But he said he believed in God, but just wasn’t raised with religion and hadn’t found one. That’s fucked up, but easy to lie about. To claim to be a \*devout \*Catholic is a pretty involved lie. You’d probably have to actually go to church and stuff, and church is really boring. Maybe even refrain from premarital sex. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/57 "2013-10-12T02:01:12Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Whoa. Huge flippin frantically waving red flags. Husband can do whatever he wants, but has no place dictating to his wife whether or not she goes to church. That combined with the fact that wife feels a need to keep secrets from him tells me that he’s very likely a controlling fuck who either already is or is on his way to becoming an abusive fuck. > > I sure as hell wouldn’t tattle on them to the husband, because god only knows how that could spiral out of control in some very bad ways. I might make a quiet, discrete query to wife or grandma, asking if everything was okay, and did they need any social or DV services. The subject hasn’t come up again whenever I was there since I started this thread, but she left early, and reading between the lines, it sounds like the daughter (who is pregnant, BTW) packed up the baby and moved back in with them. :eek: I DEFINITELY didn’t say anything. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/58 "2014-01-24T00:21:26Z")
Update: I have stopped going to this meetup because of another person, and got an PM from her yesterday on a message board we both belong to. She said she missed me, and I told her why I wasn’t coming. She replied that she was told that there are a couple of people who’ve stopped coming themselves because of her talking about her son-in-law, and since the subject came up, I replied that it had nothing to do with her, and that it’s also a very bad idea to be discussing her daughter’s marriage with people who don’t know them, especially because he works right next door. I stopped coming because there’s a new woman there who’s been divorced for about 30 years, and never passes up an opportunity to tell us about it. :smack: In other words, she’s still where she was at 30 years ago, and I avoid people like that if at all possible. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/59 "2014-01-24T01:11:53Z")
I’m sorry, but the above is a little confusing. It’s not clear who’s being referred to with the various pronouns. Would you mind re-phrasing it? \* Pfft, you’re just like my ex-husband! If I hadn’t gotten rid of him, I’d have been being confused by pronouns for 35 years already!! \*😛 ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777/60 "2014-01-24T03:30:14Z")
Okay, here’s an edited version. Yesterday, I got an PM from the woman this thread is about saying that she missed seeing me there, and I told her that I had stopped going because of a third person, who never passes up an opportunity to bash an ex she’s been divorced from for over 25 years, and I’m very uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Is that a little more clear? Sorry if I confused you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-say-something-possible-marriage-interference/668777.md?page=4)