[QUOTE=fetus]
Couldn’t they just weave a new pattern into the cover or something? Hell of an expensive and roundabout way to address a problem I wasn’t aware existed.
[/QUOTE]
I think the idea of putting a machine-readable memory device into an important identity document like a passport is a good one, it certainly raises concerns, but could also be quite useful - even to the extent of automating parts of passport control, or perhaps just making human subjective judgment a bit less crucial to the process.
The problems here are all about the implementation, as far as I can tell.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
Those pieces of information are already quite freely available from other sources such as registry offices - even online. How is it a threat if someone can electronically collect information that is already available elsewhere?
[/QUOTE]
Though I agree most of this is jusr paranoia, there is one way I can see of those with criminal intent making use of this device.
If it is possible to scan large numbers of people within an airport’s departure lounge, that info would be useful for thieves wanting to determine which properties are likely to be unoccupied. If the whole Smidson family has just been detected in the local airport departure lounge, then it can be deduced that the Smidson’s residence will be unoccupied, and thus a good target for burglary.
If the RFID chip is why passports are $95 now (I remember them being $45 in 2004), I don’t see the benefit when it just makes it even more difficult for me to see another country–even Mexico now, which is a shorter drive from my place than San Francisco.
I don’t see why they didn’t go with something that is quick and easy to read for a machine, but still requires physical access, like an encrypted magnetic strip. I think the RFID thing is a bad idea. I’m just glad that at least some security precautions were taken, but I have a feeling that even those minimal measures were in response to people who found out about the implementation and complained.
This article talks about concerns and actual security circumventions in regards to RFID-equipped cards. It mentions passport chips too. There’s another Wired article that talks about security being the biggest obstacle to widespread adoption of RFIDs in credit cards. There’s also an article from the RFID Journal that talks about implementations already in place in Asia, and problems and potential problems that have already been brought up. Many asian cultures are much less security and privacy concerned than US citizens are, and yet people are still concerned about RFID’s potential for abuse.
If private companies, which have more flexibility, more of a vested interest, and access to the latest technology can’t safeguard basic financial information, I don’t feel very confident about the government’s ability to keep identity information from being misused. And as someone mentioned earlier, the recent track record of the government isn’t all that great when it comes to protecting citizens.
[QUOTE=fetus]
A friend of mine was talking a couple years back about taking a group to Mexico to get passports they could travel to Cuba with.
[/QUOTE]
Well, then he was scamming them, because the Cubans will let anyone in with a US passport.
[QUOTE=guizot]
Well, then he was scamming them, because the Cubans will let anyone in with a US passport.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. It’s getting to Cuba that can prove a little difficult.
Then again, she could’ve just been talking about flying there from Mexico, rather than getting passports in Mexico. It was a while ago and I wasn’t all that involved.
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless]
Though I agree most of this is jusr paranoia, there is one way I can see of those with criminal intent making use of this device.
If it is possible to scan large numbers of people within an airport’s departure lounge, that info would be useful for thieves wanting to determine which properties are likely to be unoccupied. If the whole Smidson family has just been detected in the local airport departure lounge, then it can be deduced that the Smidson’s residence will be unoccupied, and thus a good target for burglary.
[/QUOTE]
It sounds as though that sort of skimming just isn’t possible with these devices, because the passport cover incorporates shielding to protect it when closed, and more importantly, because the RFID chip won’t talk until it is presented with a key that is physically printed inside the document.
As I said earlier, it sounds like it will be possible to eavesdrop on the individual successful conversations between RFID and reader at the passport control desk, but large-scale generalised ‘skimming’ looks to be impossible.
[QUOTE=Sapo]
It is not about having A picture of you. It is about having THE picture of you that matches official records.
[/QUOTE]
Which picture? I can think of at least three photos I have on official documents: the one on my passport, the one on my driver’s license, and the one on my naturalization certificate. Since the last one’s over a decade old, I’m not sure how much good that one would do anyone.
I’m not entirely happy with this and I’m glad I renewed my passport last year, but I’m not all that worried about it, either. I think this is another case of people being so captivated by new technology they implement it without thinking about how to use it or how it could be misused. I’ve had bosses like that.
[QUOTE=Ethilrist]
However, in the meantime, I find myself wondering the same questions I wonder when they ask to scan my driver’s license at the liquor store:
Why?
What information is on there?
Is any of that information confidential?
Are you copying any of the confidential information?
Where is the data stored?
How securely is it transmitted and stored?
For how long?
Is the data purged after a certain amount of time, or is it kept (even in archival storage) permanently?
Again, why?
I haven’t met a liquor store clerk yet who knew the answer to any of the above perfectly reasonable questions, so I have yet to purchase anything from a store that requires it.
[/QUOTE]
Although I can’t answer questions two through eight, the answer to “why” that I got at my own frequented liquor store is that the scan provides more adequate proof that it’s not a fake ID. There’s coded name and DOB information that most cheap fakes that would pass visual inspection won’t include, or it’ll be formatted wrongly on the fakes.
The one in your passport, of course. I imagine the guy at customs looks at you, the pic on your passport and the pic on the chip (and maybe the pic they pull from a database?) to see that they all match.
That the last three match makes the passport valid. That your face matches them makes you valid. Once the passport is valid, all it takes is someone who looks enough like you (and shows up with a moustache, a funny haircut and whatever changes he deems necessary to look like you but changed enough to throw the guy off). If the 3 pics don’t match, then it doesn’t matter if the perp is your twin, the red flag has been raised.
[QUOTE=Sapo]
The one in your passport, of course. I imagine the guy at customs looks at you, the pic on your passport and the pic on the chip (and maybe the pic they pull from a database?) to see that they all match.
That the last three match makes the passport valid. That your face matches them makes you valid. Once the passport is valid, all it takes is someone who looks enough like you (and shows up with a moustache, a funny haircut and whatever changes he deems necessary to look like you but changed enough to throw the guy off). If the 3 pics don’t match, then it doesn’t matter if the perp is your twin, the red flag has been raised.
[/QUOTE]
The Department of Internal Affairs website has a FAQ for ePassports that are now being issued in NZ. About halfway down the page, there is a section about using the information and it refers to a facial recognition camera. I don’t quite get the sentence above, about validating the information on the chip. I think it’s been mistyped, and they mean it will validate the information printed in the machine readable zone. It doesn’t mention having to use a key obtained from the passport, but it may be something from the machine readable zone which is read by the text scanner and used to allow the RFID chip to be read.
[QUOTE=fetus]
Yeah. It’s getting to Cuba that can prove a little difficult.
Then again, she could’ve just been talking about flying there from Mexico, rather than getting passports in Mexico. It was a while ago and I wasn’t all that involved.
[/QUOTE]
That was probably it. She probably was just doing the tourist visa paperwork. Travel agencies in the States typically can’t (or won’t) do that.
It’s pretty easy for a Unitedstatesian to get to Cuba if you’re willing to go through Mexico or Canada. (And the U.S. laws don’t actually prevent you from going, just from spending money there. The only thing the the Cubans stamp in your passport is that you paid the tourist tax, and they make that as discreet as possible.)
[QUOTE=guizot]
That was probably it. She probably was just doing the tourist visa paperwork. Travel agencies in the States typically can’t (or won’t) do that.
It’s pretty easy for a Unitedstatesian to get to Cuba if you’re willing to go through Mexico or Canada. (And the U.S. laws don’t actually prevent you from going, just from spending money there. The only thing the the Cubans stamp in your passport is that you paid the tourist tax, and they make that as discreet as possible.)
[/QUOTE]
Just how discreet is that? Practically speaking, could I still get in trouble here, or get looked at more closely at the airport? I’ve had enough random searches and I don’t want any less-than-random ones.
[QUOTE=Seven]
From what I understand, not all US Passports currently have RFID devices installed.
How does one know?
On the three US passports in our house, they all look the same. I can not see any evidence of a RFID in the back cover of any of them.
[/QUOTE]
There’s a really easy way to tell.
[ol][li]Take your passport and place it face up on a solidly built table.[/li][li]Hit it with a hammer[/li][*]Your passport does not have an RFID device installed.[/ol]
[QUOTE=Ethilrist]
However, in the meantime, I find myself wondering the same questions I wonder when they ask to scan my driver’s license at the liquor store…
[/QUOTE]
I have a bit of a funny story about this topic.. I only know of one place around here that does that.. and they don’t even do it all that often. One time I went in (I(I’m only 21, so I expect that I’ll have my ID checked anytime I purchase alcohol) and gave them my ID. The cashier barely glanced at it, more so just to see which side was up, I think, then scanned it through. :smack:
Are you certain about that? I know that Americans do go. Some even go legally with the permission of the government (to do interviews, make films, etc.). But my generation was told that we could not travel to Cuba. (I’m 63.) I’ve always wanted to go.