# Should I throw out my dinner? (NEED ANSWER FAST) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204 "2013-08-14T12:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/61 "2013-08-15T03:15:29Z")
Years ago I read a book about the [Selous Scouts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selous_Scouts#Selection_and_training). During the initial few days of their training they were issued no food, after which the only things they were given were animals that had been killed days before and left to rot (a baboon in the case of the book I was reading). > [@](#): > > The selection course had a total duration of 17 days. From dawn to 7 am, recruits were put through a strength-sapping fitness programme. After they had completed this, they trained in basic combat skills. They were also required to traverse a particularly nasty assault course several times in the course of the training program. The course was designed to overcome their fear of heights. When darkness fell, they began night training. **In the first five days of the course, no food was issued, while for the rest of the period only rotten animals were allowed.** _bolding mine_ IIRC the rule was you could cook (completely) the meat and eat it but they were never to keep it left-overs eat cold or re-heat. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/62 "2013-08-15T04:50:42Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Unless you see bugs floating in it from the lid being off, my advice is unchanged. I’d eat it. Fussy. I’d just stir the bugs through and eat it. Seriously though, in the days before refrigeration was widely available an old ice box or coolgardie safe didn’t keep stuff at “fridge cold” and people still ate food stored in them without getting sick. I’ve done exactly that before, leaving a stew or casserole out overnight and put it in the fridge next day. No problems. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/63 "2013-08-15T06:37:02Z")
(Was offline after midnight, one of the benefits of moving out today will be unfettered internet.) > [@Mangetout](#): > > I’m not talking about those things either. The bacteria that cause food to spoil and smell are not necessarily very toxic and the bacteria that will cause food poisoning are not especially odorous (especially at the doses that will cause trouble). If the smell test was worth a damn, _people would never get food poisoning_. Granted, sometimes people get food poisoning when their dish gives no evidence of being stored in appropriate conditions or containing harmful bacteria. This happens on an occasional basis but, I argue, not to the degree that we must waste food that hasn’t been processed to the very strictest of standards without some common sense being involved. It has often been a common habit to make too much food for one meal and the left-overs are used again the next day, without being refrigerated immediately after cooking. As an (admittedly, emotive example) during Christmas lots of meats are left out at room temperature for several hours and then used again for several days afterwards. > [@Mangetout](#): > > What would be the point? You can’t develop immunity to most intestinal bacterial pathogens. That I didn’t know. I was assuming that you would develop pathogens or an immunity to bacteria in foods. I was probably mixing up the process of cooking meat correctly to kill the ‘worms’ (for want of a better word) with the fact that better husbandry has made our food safer. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/64 "2013-08-15T07:27:48Z")
Am I the only one who is grossed out not because of the meat that may spoil, but because the OP left it exposed outdoors with no cover? I don’t get it. Leave the dish on the stovetop uncovered. But outdoors? Bugs and dirt are icky! And yes, after only 5 hours, I wouldn’t hesitate to eat it. Haven’t you ever been to a picnic and eaten , say, a cold chicken sandwich with mustard? (not mayonaise) ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/65 "2013-08-15T08:01:15Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Am I the only one who is grossed out not because of the meat that may spoil, but because the OP left it exposed outdoors with no cover? > I don’t get it. Leave the dish on the stovetop uncovered. > But outdoors? Bugs and dirt are icky!) I live in a country where bugs and dirt are not allowed 😃 That reminds me. I was once eating roast chicken at an outdoor wedding reception when a hawk divebombed my plate and took off with the whole thing. That is the sort of thing I worry about when I leave my food outside! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/66 "2013-08-15T09:11:37Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > Granted, sometimes people get food poisoning when their dish gives no evidence of being stored in appropriate conditions or containing harmful bacteria. This happens on an occasional basis but, I argue, not to the degree that we must waste food that hasn’t been processed to the very strictest of standards without some common sense being involved. It has often been a common habit to make too much food for one meal and the left-overs are used again the next day, without being refrigerated immediately after cooking. As an (admittedly, emotive example) during Christmas lots of meats are left out at room temperature for several hours and then used again for several days afterwards. The four main factors in food poisoning are: Food(usually protein-based, as that’s what most foodborne pathogens love), time, moisture and warmth (this is a bit like the fire triangle, only square. So for moist, protein-based foods (stews, soups, gravies, custard, desserts), the way to keep it safe is essentially to reduce the time it stays at temperatures where bacterial growth is fastest (which is anything from just above fridge temperatures to just below ‘hot’) Removing any one of those factors will help to make the food safer for longer, so: Cooked, dry (or dried) meat may not have enough moisture Anything chilled in the fridge is not warm enough Anything cooked and eaten straight away has not time enough (with certain exceptions) foods without much protein in them are not ideal substrates for the bacteria. It’s true that other things like acidity and salinity also play a part. The one thing you can almost never rely on is the absence of the bacteria themselves - they’re everywhere - all over your body, all over the surfaces in your home, already in the food itself (either active or in spore). The guidelines and regulations given to people in the catering trade are designed to minimise risk as far as possible - at the expense of waste. The advice many have given in this thread saves a little waste, but incurs greater risk. That’s my point, I guess - people are implying ‘perfectly safe’ when: a) there’s no such thing ever, anyway b) this isn’t how you most closely approach ‘perfectly safe’ c) the basis often given for the advice (in particular, the sniff test and “I survived something similar”) is worthless ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/67 "2013-08-15T12:30:45Z")
And just to update people, I ate the bourguignon last night and nothing bad happened. It was very tasty, though the lamb was a bit tougher than usual due to the vigorous reheating I gave it. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/68 "2013-08-15T12:40:13Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Dude cooked and ate a pigeon he saw a car hit. That’s hardcore. Not as hardcore as eating roadkill you _didn’t_ see the car hit. At least you know it’s fresh! My in-laws will collect a pheasant that gets hit by their car - a pretty common occurrence in season as the birds are bred for shooting in their area and they are big, slow and stupid around traffic. Doubt they’d bother with a pigeon, though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/69 "2013-08-15T16:00:29Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > And yes, after only 5 hours, I wouldn’t hesitate to eat it. > Haven’t you ever been to a picnic and eaten , say, a cold chicken sandwich with mustard? (not mayonaise) There’s actually nothing wrong with commercial mayonnaise in this context. It retards spoilage due to the acid and salt content, not encourages it. [Here’s a cite as far back as 1982](http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/12/garden/study-finds-that-mayonnaise-can-inhibit-spoilage-of-food.html). I’m rather surprised that people are still perpetuating the mayo myth, but it’s still common. And here’s a [very simplified summary](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/health/01real.html?_r=0) from the same paper (The New York Times) in 2008: > [@](#): > > One prominent study published in The Journal of Food Protection found, for example, that in the presence of commercial mayonnaise, the growth of salmonella and staphylococcus bacteria in contaminated chicken and ham salad either slowed or stopped altogether. As the amount of mayonnaise increased, the rate of growth decreased. When temperatures rose to those of a hot summer day, the growth increased, but not as much as in samples that did not contain mayonnaise. Homemade mayonnaise is another story, though. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/70 "2013-08-15T16:52:25Z")
Why didn’t you put it straight into the fridge? That’s what they are made for, and it’s healthier too. Not that I’d be worried about a few hours outside, but there is a distinct but remote possibility of contamination that way. The refrigerator allows food to cool down quickly, spending less time in the “danger zone” of room temperature. I always put my leftovers straight into the fridge. Sometimes while people are still eating at the table. I figure if they want seconds, they can pull them directly out of the tupperware in the fridge, clean up their mess, and then put everything back. That way I don’t have to worry about forgetting and leaving the food on the counter all night. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/71 "2013-08-15T16:56:30Z")
Putting large amounts of hot food into the fridge can raise the temperature of everthing in there into the bacterial growth range, but for a plateful of food, it shouldn’t be a problem. When I refrigerate cooked food now I take a couple of reusable freezer packs out of the deep freeze and put one underneath and one on top of the bowl of hot food and put it in the fridge like that. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/72 "2013-08-15T21:18:22Z")
[quote=“Mangetout, post:71, topic:666204”] Putting large amounts of hot food into the fridge can raise the temperature of everthing in there into the bacterial growth range, but for a plateful of food, it shouldn’t be a problem. [quote] Right. Most states have laws about container sizes and temperatures, for commercial kitchens. > [@](#): > > When I refrigerate cooked food now I take a couple of reusable freezer packs out of the deep freeze and put one underneath and one on top of the bowl of hot food and put it in the fridge like that. Good idea. I leave it out until it’s reasonably cool, and I cut more slack if there’s an open space in the fridge where it won’t be right next to anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/73 "2013-08-15T21:30:07Z")
> [@Orville\_mogul](#): > > And just to update people, I ate the bourguignon last night and nothing bad happened. > > It was very tasty, though the lamb was a bit tougher than usual due to the vigorous reheating I gave it. [Heh]This thread inspired me to make lamb stew last night. And guess what I forgot to do before I went to bed? :smack: It’s all good though, I’ll be eating the remainder tonight! ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/74 "2013-08-16T12:31:34Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Why didn’t you put it straight into the fridge? That’s what they are made for, and it’s healthier too. We have a pretty small fridge, and to make space I would have to do a fair amount of rearranging. At 11 PM that just didn’t appeal to me. Also I didn’t want to undermine the efficiency of the fridge by putting in something so hot… (aah, large refrigerators. That’s one thing I definitely miss from the US…) ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/75 "2013-08-16T12:38:49Z")
> [@Orville\_mogul](#): > > And just to update people, I ate the bourguignon last night and nothing bad happened. > > It was very tasty, though the lamb was a bit tougher than usual due to the vigorous reheating I gave it. Thus disproving the old adage: “In like a Lamb, out like a Lion…” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/76 "2013-08-16T13:17:31Z")
1. Why are people talking like cooking food sterilizes it? It doesn’t. That’s why we need autoclaves. Even canning doesn’t. Hence nitrates in canned meat. 2. C. botulinum only grows in anaerobic environments. Not an issue here. 3. I think another factor here is how accustomed one is. I know someone who, after living in Australia for a year, went back to Malaysia and had to be hospitalized for food poisoning after eating “normal” food. So, if you have to ask and don’t do this regularly, don’t eat it. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/77 "2013-08-17T06:22:44Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > 1. C. botulinum only grows in anaerobic environments. Not an issue here. On a later glance, I saw that it was left uncovered. But people were saying that it would have been safer left covered - if anything, it would have been more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/78 "2013-08-17T08:26:19Z")
It’s highly unlikely that the seal would have been good enough, and the oxygen used up within 5 hours. People ship fish for longer periods than that. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/79 "2013-08-17T10:24:10Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > 1. Why are people talking like cooking food sterilizes it? Because mostly it does. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204/80 "2013-08-17T15:58:13Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Because mostly it does. The highest safe temperature for cooking meat is 185F/85C. Is that high enough to kill all microorganisms? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-throw-out-my-dinner-need-answer-fast/666204.md?page=3)