# Should I vote in November? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2008, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418 "2008-09-13T08:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/1 "2008-09-13T08:39:01Z")
[Mods - this may be better fit for IMHO. Your call] Of course you should vote, I hear you saying. What kind of stupid question is that? Voting is a sacred duty… and I agree with that. But it’s a bit more complicated than that. I am a U.S. citizen from birth. My parents are both natives of New Jersey, and I grew up in an English-speaking household. I speak perfect English, and I make an effort to keep up with American politics and culture, in no small way through the SDMB. I hold a U.S. passport an I have no intention of returning it. However: I was born here in Israel and have lived here for 27 of my 34 years, have served in the military, have married and raised a child here. I do not have divided loyalties - I am an Israeli first, and an American a distant second. While I am very, very fond of America, I don’t believe a citizen may serve two flags. Now let me ask you again - in a world where so may people don’t get to vote even once, should I allow myself to vote twice? On, and before you ask - I’m registered to vote in New York; and I haven’t decided who to for for yet, if I do vote. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/2 "2008-09-13T09:00:45Z")
That depends. Who are you considering voting for? 😛 If there’s no question of whether you’re allowed to vote, I would. “Serving two flags” is a non-issue to me, if you can do your part to make sure the best possible candidate is the next U.S. President, you should. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/3 "2008-09-13T10:05:50Z")
I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/4 "2008-09-13T12:30:13Z")
No, i’d say not. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/5 "2008-09-13T12:51:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I do not have divided loyalties - I am an Israeli first, and an American a distant second. While I am very, very fond of America, I don’t believe a citizen may serve two flags. Therein lies your answer. Regardless of your passport, if _you_ do not believe yourself to be a citizen of the US, then you should not vote. (Alternatively, how would you feel about an American-Israeli in the opposite position voting there?) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/6 "2008-09-13T13:49:59Z")
IMHO if America gives you the right to vote that is all that counts. Furthermore, I do not believe in nationalities, I believe in humankind. If you can affect the world for the better then you should. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/7 "2008-09-13T13:54:15Z")
If you’re allowed to, and you want to, where does “should” enter the picture. No one can tell you not to. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/8 "2008-09-13T13:59:24Z")
I’d say **leander** has it: if your belief is that you cannot serve two flags, and can’t be a citizen of two countries in a meaningful way, you should not vote. I’d vote, though. I’ve never served any flag, and I don’t believe that I exist to serve nation states. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/9 "2008-09-13T14:13:57Z")
First of all, I can vote - I voted in 1992, 1996 and 2000 (although I was living in New York in 2000, so there was less of a dilemma then). I forgot to apply for an absentee ballot in 2004, and I’m quickly approaching the cutoff date for 2008. So yes, legally speaking, I have as much a legal right to vote in the Presidential elections as anyone here. The fact that I have a legal right to do something doesn’t mean I should do it, though. Second of all, supposing I do vote - should I vote based on my own interests, and support the candidate I feel is best for Israel? Or, as I am voting as a U.S. citizen, should I vote for the candidate I feel would be best for the U.S.? This is assuming that they are not the same person, of course, which may well be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/10 "2008-09-13T14:31:46Z")
I think **sailor** summed it up perfectly. Vote not as an American, but as a citizen of humanity. Vote for the candidate you believe best for the world in its entirety. Apply for that absentee ballot. You always have the option of not using it. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/11 "2008-09-13T14:40:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > First of all, I can vote - I voted in 1992, 1996 and 2000 (although I was living in New York in 2000, so there was less of a dilemma then). I forgot to apply for an absentee ballot in 2004, and I’m quickly approaching the cutoff date for 2008. > > So yes, legally speaking, I have as much a legal right to vote in the Presidential elections as anyone here. The fact that I have a legal right to do something doesn’t mean I should do it, though. > > Second of all, supposing I do vote - should I vote based on my own interests, and support the candidate I feel is best for Israel? Or, as I am voting as a U.S. citizen, should I vote for the candidate I feel would be best for the U.S.? This is assuming that they are not the same person, of course, which may well be the case. Ok, first off – since you’re voting in NY, then practically speaking your vote won’t matter. Not one bit. Ethically, your vote _will_ matter, mostly to you and others who may be in your position (or the exact opposite position). So consider this – an American citizen who has lived in the US most of their life, but who just so happens to have an Israeli passport. What if at some point they have to choose between a candidate who takes a hard-line approach to Israel (and a sympathetic approach to Palestine) but who also agrees with them on most domestic issues? And Israel is only a small matter to the bigger picture? How would you want them to act? It’s not an easy answer. As I said, practically, your vote won’t matter. But what will matter is how you – _and others like you_ – consider your positions in the future. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/12 "2008-09-13T15:45:08Z")
The first thing I would do, if I were in your shoes, is apply for the absentee ballot. That way, you have time to decide whether or not you want to use it. After that, comes the decision making. You obviously are entitled to vote. Personally, I see nothing wrong with someone with dual loyalties voting in both places – you still seem to have some attachment to this country, even if it is less than to the other, and your vote here could have a big effect on policies dealing with the region of your stronger loyalties. I think my final question would be this: are you now, or could you become, knowledgeable enough about the candidates, issues, and their stances to make an informed choice? If so, then I would more than welcome your vote as one of an unfortunate few cast that way. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/13 "2008-09-13T15:47:18Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I think **sailor** summed it up perfectly. Vote not as an American, but as a citizen of humanity. Vote for the candidate you believe best for the world in its entirety. > > Apply for that absentee ballot. You always have the option of not using it. I couldn’t disagree with this more. The vote is to elect the President of a particular country. If you do decide to vote, it seems to me that you have a responsibility to do so in a way that would most benefit that country. If you cannot do that, I don’t think you should vote. If you can, I see nothing wrong with it. Of course, if you believe that the person who would most benefit the U.S. would also most benefit the world at large, then the calculation becomes easier. But you indicate that that might not be how you view things. But I, for one, do commend you on taking your voting so seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/14 "2008-09-13T15:57:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I couldn’t disagree with this more. The vote is to elect the President of a particular country. If you do decide to vote, it seems to me that you have a responsibility to do so in a way that would most benefit that country. If you cannot do that, I don’t think you should vote. If you can, I see nothing wrong with it. Of course, if you believe that the person who would most benefit the U.S. would also most benefit the world at large, then the calculation becomes easier. But you indicate that that might not be how you view things. > > But I, for one, do commend you on taking your voting so seriously. And that’s one of the ways you and I differ most profoundly, **magellan**. I view myself as a human first, an American second, and a New Jerseyan (or -ite) third. I will admit that I value my immediate family more than humanity at large. ETA: But I agree with your commendation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/15 "2008-09-13T16:02:23Z")
If I were you, in those circumstances, I wouldn’t. I don’t know about some of the other people in this thread, but I’m not a citizen of humanity. I’m a citizen of the United States. And while you are too, like you said, you’re an Israeli first, and an American second. But it’s your decision, of course. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/16 "2008-09-13T16:09:05Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > And that’s one of the ways you and I differ most profoundly, **magellan**. I view myself as a human first, an American second, and a New Jerseyan (or -ite) third. I will admit that I value my immediate family more than humanity at large. You are a human residing in a particular place on the globe. You are subject to its rules and laws. Those rules and laws will affect you and your neighbors much, much more than they will affect someone living in Chad, New Zealand, or China. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/17 "2008-09-13T16:12:18Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Ok, first off – since you’re voting in NY, then practically speaking your vote won’t matter. Not one bit. If by practically speaking you mean standing a chance to change the outcome of the election, no one’s vote matters. Not one bit. You don’t vote to affect the outcome, you vote to have your voice heard, to send a message to Washington. There’s power in numbers–just think if Bush had gotten 80% of the vote in 2000; the outcome wouldn’t have changed, but the would would be very different today. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/18 "2008-09-13T16:29:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You are a human residing in a particular place on the globe. You are subject to its rules and laws. Those rules and laws will affect you and your neighbors much, much more than they will affect someone living in Chad, New Zealand, or China. I agree. Nonetheless, my first concern is for the welfare of humanity at large, then for the welfare of the nation. ETA: That doesn’t mean I am able to influence them equally. **Influential Panda** , in what way do you think things would have been different if GWB had been elected with an 80% majority? From where I sit, it looked like he behaved as if he had been. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/19 "2008-09-13T16:46:38Z")
Data point: I’m in \*\*exactly \*\*the same situation as the OP (American born, hold a US passport, living in Israel for over 40 of my nearly 45 years. Army, friends, wife, kids…) I asked myself this very same question some years ago, and I’ve settled this question with myself, deciding **not** to vote in US elections, for the reason outlined by many – I will not necessarily be able to bring myself to vote for the candidate who is, IMO, best **for the US**. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418/20 "2008-09-13T17:26:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > My parents are both natives of New Jersey, I’m so very sorry. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-i-vote-in-november/463418.md?page=2)