# should insurance and medicaid cover routine circumcision **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269 "2002-06-27T21:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/21 "2002-06-29T08:16:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsRobyn \* > **There are other routine procedures that are done on a purely preventive basis that insurance covers merely because they are. If you look at it from a certain perspective, circumcision is also a preventive procedure.** Medical evidence for that is sketchy at best, and from what I’ve seen it’s only preventive in the sense that you don’t have to worry about washing a body part that you don’t have, or getting cancer in it. > [@](#): > > **And as for your example of artificial teeth, if someone needs them, they’re covered, because it’s known that there is a correlation between dental health and overall health.** If someone needs them, yes. And I have no issue with insurance and Medicaid covering circumcision when it’s needed–but most of the time, it isn’t, it’s just a cosmetic or pseudo-preventive decision. > [@](#): > > **Now let me ask you this. Do you think that voluntary, surgical sterilization (vasectomy or tubal ligation) should be covered by insurance? They’re not necessary for life or health, and there are other means of accomplishing the same thing. So why should insurance pay for these?** If insurance also pays for birth control and childbirth, it becomes an economic question: will our money be better spent buying birth control for the next few decades, delivering an unintended child, or providing a one-time sterilization? Also, sterilization has a well-defined medical purpose, and it fits in as one more option among the various choices for birth control. I don’t know of any other procedure where body parts are routinely removed without solid medical evidence (especially at birth); even tonsils aren’t removed unless something goes wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/22 "2002-06-29T09:21:50Z")
:smack: Could a moderator please delete one of those? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/23 "2002-06-29T13:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\* > Medical evidence for that is sketchy at best, and from what I’ve seen it’s only preventive in the sense that you don’t have to worry about washing a body part that you don’t have, or getting cancer in it. > If someone needs them, yes. And I have no issue with insurance and Medicaid covering circumcision when it’s needed–but most of the time, it isn’t, it’s just a cosmetic or pseudo-preventive decision. > If insurance also pays for birth control and childbirth, it becomes an economic question: will our money be better spent buying birth control for the next few decades, delivering an unintended child, or providing a one-time sterilization? > > Also, sterilization has a well-defined medical purpose, and it fits in as one more option among the various choices for birth control. I don’t know of any other procedure where body parts are routinely removed without solid medical evidence (especially at birth); even tonsils aren’t removed unless something goes wrong. \*\* Well, the appendix is frequently removed “just because”. And so are wisdom teeth. (I should point out that the appendix is removed during some other abdominal procedure.) Insurance companies will likely do some statistical numbers-wrangling before making a final decision; that’s what they do. I, for one, hope they keep coverage on circumcision. It wouldn’t be any loopier than some of the things they won’t drop. BTW, with Baby Doors’ impending arrival, I will be happy to do a comparative study on taking care of a circumcised vs. uncircumcised penis. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/24 "2002-06-29T15:05:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\* > If insurance also pays for birth control and childbirth, it becomes an economic question: will our money be better spent buying birth control for the next few decades, delivering an unintended child, or providing a one-time sterilization? > > Also, sterilization has a well-defined medical purpose, and it fits in as one more option among the various choices for birth control. I don’t know of any other procedure where body parts are routinely removed without solid medical evidence (especially at birth); even tonsils aren’t removed unless something goes wrong. \*\* Anyone out there who has ever had an insurance plan that paid for any kind of birth control besides the Pill? I’ve had several different ones over the years, and out of the ones that paid for birth control at all (many didn’t, but odly enough were happy to pay for sterilization, and some would even pay for abortions but not contraception, which is just WRONG!), none covered anything besides the Pill. The problem with that is that many women are unable to use birth control pills for medical reasons (I had to fight big-time with my doc to use it, months after a post-surgical blood clot, by reasoning with her that it wasn’t that I had a clotting problem in general, it was just that I was on the Pill when I broke the damn leg and spent a month on my butt in bed, and you’re supposed to go off the Pill before anything which will require you to convalesce in bed. Unfortunately, life didn’t give me that choice.) And for many who are able to take the Pill from a medical standpoint, it’s just not the best option. So I guess at least insurance companies are consistently inonsistent. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/25 "2002-07-27T08:28:10Z")
To clear it up, the Canadian medicare system pays for a great deal of things, but definitely does NOT, repeat NOT, cover breast implants. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/26 "2002-07-27T09:41:58Z")
\>\> Well, the appendix is frequently removed “just because”. And so are wisdom teeth. No, and NO respectively. The appendix is removed wheen there is a good medical reason and so are the wisdom teeth. No doctor is going to tell you to have them removed “just because”. Coloncospies and otehr preventive procedure are just that, “preventive”, and therefore recommended. The AMA and not needed in any way. The _only_ reason is cultural or “just because” and, as such, if you want it you should pay for it yourself just as is you want a piercing or a tatoo. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/27 "2002-07-27T09:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*Because insurance pays for a lot of cosmetic stuff. > > Ever hear of breast implants? \*\* I would be interested in knowing just which insurance companies pay for breast implants, and under which circumstances. One moderator has already warned you about posting inaccurate medical information in GQ. You may consider that warning to be boardwide, applicable in all forums. Lynn Bodoni For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/28 "2002-07-27T10:13:14Z")
Here’s a [site](http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/FAQ/) that debunks a lot of circumcision myths and gives information on the care of the intact penis. I’ve linked to the FAQ page, but if you go farther up the tree there’s loads of information (a reference library, etc.). My intact boyfriend goes crazy when I stimulate his frenulum (which circumsized males don’t have) and his glans seems a lot more sensitive than the cut males I’ve known. So, no, it’s not medically necessary (in fact, it became widespread in America as an attempt to keep boys from masturbating :rolleyes:, not for health reasons) and should not be covered by insurance. BTW, Arizona doesn’t have Medicaid. We have a far less generous program called AHCCCS (Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System). ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/29 "2002-07-27T14:24:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*\>\> Well, the appendix is frequently removed “just because”. And so are wisdom teeth. > > No, and NO respectively. The appendix is removed wheen there is a good medical reason and so are the wisdom teeth. No doctor is going to tell you to have them removed “just because”. Coloncospies and otehr preventive procedure are just that, “preventive”, and therefore recommended. The AMA and not needed in any way. The _only_ reason is cultural or “just because” and, as such, if you want it you should pay for it yourself just as is you want a piercing or a tatoo. \*\* Then please explain incidental appendectomy (which is generally not billed for) and prophylactic wisdom-tooth extraction (which I had at the Navy’s order.) Robin ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/30 "2002-07-27T14:52:10Z")
Since I have no idea what an "incidental appendectomy"is I went to google and searched for “incidental appendectomy”. The first link I got says: > [@](#): > > Incidental Appendectomy > Removing a normal appendix incidentally during a surgical procedure done for reasons other than abdominal pain is associated with a small but definite increase in adverse postoperative outcome. In this respect incidental appendectomy has been found to increase the incidence of postoperative septic complications (wound infection). It is neither cost-effective as an estimated 36 incidental procedures would be needed to prevent one case of appendicitis In other words: a) It is done for very specific medical reasons in the course of some other operation and not “just because”. b) that paper says it is better not to do it. Please provide cites of any healthy person who had the appendix removed “just because” and for no other medical reason. \>\> prophylactic wisdom-tooth extraction So “prophylactic” now means “just because”? huh? Ok, I’ll make a note of that. Everybody I know who had their wisdom teeth removed had a good reason to do it. I had my wisdom teeth for many years until they were full of cavities and causing problems and I had them extracted. In all the years that they were healthy not one single dentist suggested I take them out “just because”. Please provide cites of any doctors who recommend pulling healthy teeth “just because”. As has been pointed out by the mods, medical advice is better left to the people who know what they are talking about which is neither you or me. If you are going to make such assertions I hope you can have very solid foundations. I do not think _any_ doctor would recommend pulling an appendix or a tooth “just because”. If you say the contrary, please find a doctor who will support that view. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/31 "2002-07-27T14:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Then please explain incidental appendectomy (which is generally not billed for) and prophylactic wisdom-tooth extraction (which I had at the Navy’s order.) Neither one is these is really “just because”. Incidental appendectomies are performed when surgery is already being done in the area (and I believe the reason is to avoid an assumption (and misdiagnonsis ) later that the appendix has been removed, when in fact it hasn’t ) Maybe not the best reason, but different from removing it in a separate surgery “just because” it’s there and might cause trouble. And in my experience, at least, prophylactic removal of wisdom teeth occurs when the tooth is not causing trouble yet, but it is obvious that it will. They are not simply removed with no sign of future problems. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/32 "2002-07-27T15:05:57Z")
First of all, I read medical reports for a living that have included the phrase “incidental appendectomy” (and I should have clarified that I meant “incidental in the sense that the surgeon already had the patient open and removed the appendix while he was there”, not “separate surgery for the purpose of removing a healthy body part”, which is mutilation by any standard). I also know that this procedure is almost never billed for because it is “incidental”. As for wisdom teeth, they are occasionally removed for preventative reasons, whether there is the expectation that they’ll cause problems or not. Military people (at least this was true 10 years ago) come to mind, because they’re subject to conditions that are less than ideal for oral surgery IF they do go bad. Robin ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/33 "2002-07-27T15:07:00Z")
**doreen** , the page I mentioned, if I understood it correctly, seems to imply an incidental appendectomy is done sometimes when an operation is done in that are to prevent a cause for infections. It is not related to any later assumptions that the appendix was removed or not. In any case, the point is that an appendix is never removed for no reason other than “just because”. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/34 "2002-07-27T15:13:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Insurance and Medicaid should classify circumcision with clitoridectomy, bloodletting, and phrenology. \*\* Just FTR, some evidence has recently come to light that circumcized penises _might_ have less of a chance of getting infected with HIV during unprotected sex than uncircumcized penises do. (Two 1999 studies from Africa, where HIV infection among heterosexuals has reached epidemic proportions, claim to show a positive correlation between HIV infection and a lack of circumcision. They’re still controversial; see [http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html](http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html) for a counterargument.) ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/35 "2002-07-27T19:08:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*Because insurance pays for a lot of cosmetic stuff. > > Ever hear of breast implants? \*\* Insurance does not cover breast augmentation and may not cover reoperation (additional surgery) and additional doctor’s visits following augmentation. [www.plastic-surgery.net](http://www.plastic-surgery.net) even says that usually obtaining 2 letters of medical necessity will not be sufficient in getting insurance to pay for breast implants. You have to prove one of a very few medical conditions (for example, after a mastectomy for breast cancer). So, what is the rational for insurance paying for circumcism? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/36 "2002-07-27T21:18:12Z")
> [@](#): > > As for wisdom teeth, they are occasionally removed for preventative reasons, whether there is the expectation that they’ll cause problems or not. Military people (at least this was true 10 years ago) come to mind, because they’re subject to conditions that are less than ideal for oral surgery IF they do go bad. Are you saying that all members of the military have their wisdom teeth removed ? Because I’m not at all saying they won’t be removed prior to causing problems if there simply isn’t enough room in the jaw for them to grow in properly (and to my understanding, that can be seen on X-rays). I am saying I have never heard of wisdom teeth being removed that were not causing problems and weren’t expected to cause them in the future. That’s precisely why I still have one that hasn’t erupted yet. If it ever does erupt, there is enough room for it (unlike the ones that were removed.)If I do have it removed my insurance absolutely will not pay for it, as no problem will show on the x-rays that the company will demand. I’m not even really saying it never happens. I had a dentist remove four of my baby teeth when I was 12 “just because” I was too old to have baby teeth. The fact that one dentist did it, even if he did it to every patient of his, doesn’t make it a frequent occurence. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/37 "2002-07-27T21:58:00Z")
\>\> Are you saying that all members of the military have their wisdom teeth removed ? Make your own jokes about the military and having wisdom removed. Reminds me of: Military music is to music what military intelligence is to intelligence. Sorry for the interruption. Please continue the interesting discussion. It does not much concern me as I am planning on keeping my penis as it has been all along. It seems to work pretty well as it is and i see no need to make any changes. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/38 "2002-07-27T22:03:25Z")
\>\> Are you saying that all members of the military have their wisdom teeth removed ? Make your own jokes about the military and having wisdom removed. Reminds me of: Military music is to music what military intelligence is to intelligence. Sorry for the interruption. Please continue the interesting discussion. It does not much concern me as I am planning on keeping my penis as it has been all along. It seems to work pretty well as it is and i see no need to make any changes. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/39 "2002-07-27T22:07:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\* > Just FTR, some evidence has recently come to light that circumcized penises _might_ have less of a chance of getting infected with HIV during unprotected sex than uncircumcized penises do. (Two 1999 studies from Africa, where HIV infection among heterosexuals has reached epidemic proportions, claim to show a positive correlation between HIV infection and a lack of circumcision. They’re still controversial; see [http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html](http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html) for a counterargument.) \*\* Given the immense cultural bias in favor of circumsicions in Africa, which is responsible for the viewing of uncircumcised adults as outcasts (and occasionally to assaults and forced circumcisions), I wouldn’t trust any data from a study done in that country. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269/40 "2002-07-28T11:04:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\* > Just FTR, some evidence has recently come to light that circumcized penises _might_ have less of a chance of getting infected with HIV during unprotected sex than uncircumcized penises do. \*\* And castrated penises are even less likely to be infected. Doesn’t _really_ make it a justified operation, does it? Amputed toes never get corns. Cut a bit off you and you remove all risk of it infecting you in future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-and-medicaid-cover-routine-circumcision/116269.md?page=3)