# Should insurance companies cover "Christian counseling"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456 "2011-07-01T01:00:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/21 "2011-07-01T16:38:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Under workers’ compensation _any_ medical care has to be prescribed or recommended by a physician. Workers’ compensation isn’t really analogous because covered medical expenses are established by statute or regulation. Insurers can’t decide for themselves what to cover. True, but it’s the states that set the statutes and as such, California has deemed that Chiropractic (woo) care needs to be limited even if they physician would give a larger prescription. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/22 "2011-07-01T16:51:12Z")
Apparently he also gets [Medicaid payments](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/michele-bachmann-medicaid-funds_n_887107.html). ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/23 "2011-07-01T16:58:59Z")
I would have thought that “Christian counseling” would be free. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/24 "2011-07-01T16:59:19Z")
How much of his practice is really devoted to reparative therapy (and related techniques)? As disgusting as his views are, presumably he and his affiliates are licensed and qualified to counsel on other matters. I saw a counselor for a time who happened to hold somewhat fundamentalist religious beliefs, but he (a graduate student) was perfectly adequate to address e.g. issues with anxiety and ADHD. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/25 "2011-07-01T17:13:11Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I would have thought that “Christian counseling” would be free. “… the worker is due his wages” (Luke 10:7). Christian counseling CAN be free, but it doesn’t always have to be, and it’s only reasonable for people to get paid fairly for their work, especially when they’ve invested years of tuition and training into it. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/26 "2011-07-01T17:20:46Z")
Insurance companies can cover whatever they want. It’s just business. In most cases, it depends on what kind of deal they can swing with the HR department at work. In my case they cover accupuncture and chiropractors, at least for some limited number of visits. That’s just the way the contract between my company and the insurance company turned out. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/27 "2011-07-01T17:23:50Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > “They’ve changed them to their own personal needs.” Not meaning to hijack, but I was floored by the irony of this statement. Isn’t your personal need to get keep alcohol from destroying your life the whole point of AA? If an atheist version of AA is what you personally need to get off the booze then more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/28 "2011-07-01T18:34:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Do you consider AA religious? Yes. It at least attempts to treat a real problem, though. “reparative therapy” does not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/29 "2011-07-01T19:25:12Z")
I would think they have a success rate near zero. It is a huge waste of time and money. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/30 "2011-07-01T19:35:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Why would an insurance plan pay for a dogmatically indoctrinated counseling sessions that are at complete odds with most scholarly research in the field and that conceivably can do great harm? I don’t know of any insurance plans that would pay for Tarot card reading or augury, even if the person had a Ph.D., and these are about as respected by the mainstream counseling profession as Bachmann’s philosophy. Why do insurance plans pay for new age psudo-scientific medical treatments or potions that fly in the face of medicine? Answer…gods know, when you find out let me in on it though. It all seems a huge waste to me (granted, the guy in your OP seems much more offensive than someone trying to sell pushing pins into you to cure cancer or use water with 9 billion times diluted magic potion in it), but I guess people want this crap so insurance companies pay for it. ETA: SHOULD insurance companies pay for this stuff? Hell no. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/31 "2011-07-01T19:38:22Z")
Even the “successes” are defined only as guys who stop having sex with men for a while (i think it’s like a year or so before they call it a “success”), but not having sex with men does not mean a guy is not still gay. I think there are a small percentage of guys who are bisexual, and who simply confine their sexual relationships to women. In neither case is orientation actually cured, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/32 "2011-07-01T20:50:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Even the “successes” are defined only as guys who stop having sex with men for a while (i think it’s like a year or so before they call it a “success”), but not having sex with men does not mean a guy is not still gay. And even that is based on taking the patient’s word for it. Several gays who went through the therapy when they were teens or otherwise still be financially supported by their parents said they learned quick to just tell the counselors what they wanted to hear and bide their time til they were on their own. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/33 "2011-07-01T21:03:29Z")
Do insurance companies cover medical marijuana now? I don’t see why not. States that allow it are pretty strict about a licensed doctor writing the scrip. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/34 "2011-07-01T21:06:31Z")
I would assume so since it’s a drug that can be prescribed by a doctor. Why wouldn’t they cover it? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/35 "2011-07-01T21:08:58Z")
Why not? It’s a method of practice and he’s a licensed professional. There are plenty of non-traditional therapies/methods that were/are covered by insurance, so long as they’re in the general confounds of doc/licenses/therapy. _I_ think that certain kinds of therapy are shit, but that’s not really up to the insurance companies to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/36 "2011-07-01T21:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Even the “successes” are defined only as guys who stop having sex with men for a while (i think it’s like a year or so before they call it a “success”), but not having sex with men does not mean a guy is not still gay. So practically, all they have to do is to get the dude’s current boyfriend to get fed up with the woo and dump him? That doesn’t seem too difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/37 "2011-07-01T21:24:24Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Why not? It’s a method of practice and he’s a licensed professional. There are plenty of non-traditional therapies/methods that were/are covered by insurance, so long as they’re in the general confounds of doc/licenses/therapy. > > _I_ think that certain kinds of therapy are shit, but that’s not really up to the insurance companies to decide. Sure it is. Insurance companies can decide whatever they want, and reparative therapy is not recognized as a legitimate medical practice by the AMA or the APA. Homosexuality is not a disorder. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/38 "2011-07-01T23:37:38Z")
I don’t think there’s any suggestion that any insurance companies _are_ paying for “reparative therapy” here. What we have is a guy who at least at some time in the past has administered this “therapy”, and who now belongs to a counselling practice which has a distinct flavour of a particular brand of Christianity, and which does get payments from health insurers. But the practice may not currently provide “reparative therapy” and, if it does, insurers may not pay for it. (I wouldn’t be surprised if they did, for reasons given in my earlier post. But we don’t know that they do.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/39 "2011-07-01T23:42:49Z")
MSNBC is doing a piece on this right now. They played a recording of this guy talking about the “barbarians” and , oddly enough, he has a stereotypical “gay speech pattern”, if you know what I mean. Anyway, as others have said, if you want to know why a company does “x”, the answer is usually that they can make money selling “x”. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456/40 "2011-07-01T23:47:50Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > “… the worker is due his wages” (Luke 10:7). Christian counseling CAN be free, but it doesn’t always have to be, and it’s only reasonable for people to get paid fairly for their work, especially when they’ve invested years of tuition and training into it. I took **Grumann’s** point ot be that someone providing “Christian counseling” – that is, counseling intended to bring the patient closer to God – should not charge for his or her services. Jesus didn’t ask for money for healing people, after all. Of course, Jesus was not an asshole. This distinguishes him from many current Christians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-insurance-companies-cover-christian-counseling/587456.md?page=3)