# Should Iraq pay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473 "2010-09-20T22:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/21 "2010-09-22T17:37:25Z")
Obviously, _enforcing_ extraterritorial judgments is an issue. Hence the asset-freezing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/22 "2010-09-22T18:08:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What jurisdiction does a US court have over Iraq, even post-invasion Iraq, and under what law do they operate ? šŸ˜• Anyone ? Anyone ? \*\*Bricker \*\*? 18 USC 2340: ā€œWhoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.ā€ If Saddam had bothered to send lawyers to argue his side of the torture case, perhaps the court would have ruled differently. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/23 "2010-09-22T18:14:24Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Saddam is dead. The Iraqi people should not be held responsible for anything he did. Some Americans were hurt by the former regime? So were the people theyā€™re trying to collect from. This makes no sense. Itā€™s victims trying to hold up fellow victims. > > Some people still hold the US responsible for the invasion of Iraq. George Bush has been removed from power. Not removed. He served as many terms as he was legally allowed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/24 "2010-09-22T21:39:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > Some people still hold the US responsible for the invasion of Iraq. George Bush has been removed from power. > > Not removed. He served as many terms as he was legally allowed. He was removed by the US Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/25 "2010-09-23T13:39:41Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > He was removed by the US Constitution. Thatā€™s not comparable to a military invasion. The U.S. government remained in place, the _administration_ changed. No laws changed and the Constitution was not altered. And of course thereā€™s still a significant U.S. military presence in Iraq. You pretty much acknowledged this yourself in your first post when you said ā€œsome people hold the _U.S._ responsibleā€ and then shifted to talk about George W. Bush as an individual. The Baathist government was deposed by the invasion. The U.S. government was not reconstituted when Obama became president. Thereā€™s reason to argue Iraq is no longer responsible for these costs because the government that harmed the Americans no longer exists. That argument wouldnā€™t hold water for the invasion of Iraq. The government still exists and the occupation has been reduced significantly but is not over. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/26 "2010-09-23T14:11:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > He was removed by the US Constitution. > > Thatā€™s not comparable to a military invasion. The U.S. government remained in place, the _administration_ changed. No laws changed and the Constitution was not altered. And of course thereā€™s still a significant U.S. military presence in Iraq. You pretty much acknowledged this yourself in your first post when you said ā€œsome people hold the _U.S._ responsibleā€ and then shifted to talk about George W. Bush as an individual. The Baathist government was deposed by the invasion. The U.S. government was not reconstituted when Obama became president. Thereā€™s reason to argue Iraq is no longer responsible for these costs because the government that harmed the Americans no longer exists. That argument wouldnā€™t hold water for the invasion of Iraq. The government still exists and the occupation has been reduced significantly but is not over. It must be a Canadian thing. We always talk about new governments and forming a new government when an election returns a different party to power. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/27 "2010-09-23T14:14:19Z")
The U.S. doesnā€™t have a parliamentary system, so terms like that donā€™t get used here. The Democrats and Republicans donā€™t form a coalition. In fact at this point they donā€™t do anything together at all. We might say a different party is in power, or that control of a branch of government or a house of Congress changed hands, or that thereā€™s a new administration in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/28 "2010-09-23T14:24:03Z")
And even in a parliamentary system itā€™s not the same thing as what happened in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/29 "2010-09-23T17:58:10Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Thatā€™s not comparable to a military invasion. The U.S. government remained in place, the _administration_ changed. No laws changed and the Constitution was not altered. And of course thereā€™s still a significant U.S. military presence in Iraq. You pretty much acknowledged this yourself in your first post when you said ā€œsome people hold the _U.S._ responsibleā€ and then shifted to talk about George W. Bush as an individual. The Baathist government was deposed by the invasion. The U.S. government was not reconstituted when Obama became president. Thereā€™s reason to argue Iraq is no longer responsible for these costs because the government that harmed the Americans no longer exists. That argument wouldnā€™t hold water for the invasion of Iraq. The government still exists and the occupation has been reduced significantly but is not over. > > It must be a Canadian thing. We always talk about new governments and forming a new government when an election returns a different party to power. Americans tend to use the word ā€œadministrationā€ instead. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473/30 "2010-09-23T18:25:15Z")
The short answer is: No. A slightly longer answer is: Analogies between Vietnam War and the Bush-Cheney Wars _are_ valid: America will fail because it mistreats the people it (supposedly) wants to help. > [@Ravenman](#): > > It should be noted that the US has spent more than $50 billion in reconstruction funding for Iraq. Not personal compensation, of course, but certainly that ought to figure into the equation. Reconstruction funds for _destruction_ mostly caused directly or indirectly by U.S. action. > [@Ravenman](#): > > The US has also made well in excess of $30 million of personal payments to Iraqis and Afghans for civilians who were killed and injured. Was that million with an ā€˜mā€™? Thatā€™s just a rounding error in Bushā€™s Trillion Dollar Folly. How many **billions** were spent on _destruction_ in the Most Foolish War Ever? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-iraq-pay/554473.md?page=1)