# SHOULD Israel Rebuild The Temple? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215 "2004-08-17T07:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/21 "2004-08-17T20:41:52Z")
Simply from a Jewish religious point of view, the Temple can’t be rebuilt nowadays for two reasons: 1. The sacrificial altar would need to be placed on the precise site of the prior altars, and we do not have sufficient knowledge to locate it that precisely. It is better to not sacrifice at all than to sacrifice in the wrong place. 2. All Jews today are in a state of ritual impurity due to contact with dead bodies, since there have not been any red heifers in ages. People in such a state should not be dealing in sanctified things. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/22 "2004-08-17T20:53:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: We (i.e., the U.S., or any nation that is sufficiently equipped and gives a fuck) should **nuke Jerusalem.** Evacuate it, compensate all the residents for lost property (plus $100 each for the inconvenience), and nuke it. With dirty bombs. So thoroughly that nobody can go near the site without a radiation suit for another thousand years. In the interests of world peace and quiet. Nothing left to fight over. Are you crazy?! J-lem is the capital of our country! Fuck the historic or religious significance - if you blow the place up, all the politicians and civil servants will start hanging out here in Tel Aviv! We haven’t done anything to deserve _that_. As to the OP - what, we don’t have enough problems? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/23 "2004-08-17T21:33:34Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > … > > 1. The sacrificial altar would need to be placed on the precise site of the prior altars, and we do not have sufficient knowledge to locate it that precisely. It is better to not sacrifice at all than to sacrifice in the wrong place. > > 2. All Jews today are in a state of ritual impurity due to contact with dead bodies, since there have not been any red heifers in ages. People in such a state should not be dealing in sanctified things. Well, #1 makes sense and is straightforward enough. #2 is rather interesting. Please tell more! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/24 "2004-08-17T21:52:28Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The rebuilding of the temple would be an interesting project indeed. Are there ANY representations of it as it appeared in ca 70 AD? How DO we know that the “wailing wall” is really the foundation of Herod’s temple? > And, contact Indiana Jones about that Ark thing…it is in a government warehouse, somewhere (or in a Christain church in Ethiopia)! The Holyland Hotel in Jerusalem has a model of the Second (Herodian) Temple. You can see pix here: [http://www.inisrael.com/holyland/model.html](http://www.inisrael.com/holyland/model.html) See also: > **[The Temple Institute of Jerusalem - Learn About the Temple Institute](https://templeinstitute.org/)** > > The Temple Institute is dedicated to the Holy Temple of Jerusalem - Read about the Holy Temple and how The Temple Insitite is playing a role. [http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The\_Temple.html](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Temple.html) [http://www.templemount.org/](http://www.templemount.org/) And the “Temple Mount Faithful” are here: [http://www.templemountfaithful.org/](http://www.templemountfaithful.org/) And here’s a couple of Protestant Evangelical “Last Days” sites: [http://www.ldslastdays.com/psc711.htm](http://www.ldslastdays.com/psc711.htm) [http://www.bible-prophecy.com/temple.htm](http://www.bible-prophecy.com/temple.htm) (This one has a page on “Where is the Ark of the Covenant?”) [http://www.excel.net/~hoy/eastgate.html](http://www.excel.net/~hoy/eastgate.html) > [@HPL](#): > > I’m NOT sure that pissing off 3 of the world’s major religions is going to help anything. If this board didn’t have a rule against “hate speech,” I would respond to that by saying, “Fuck the Jews, fuck the Muslims, and double-fuck the Christians in every hole without vaseline!” But I can’t, so I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/25 "2004-08-17T21:57:56Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Well, #1 makes sense and is straightforward enough. #2 is rather interesting. Please tell more! According to Numbers 19, a perfect red heifer, without blemish or spot, and never having known a yoke, was required to purify someone who’d touched dead bodies, which apparently has some major connection to re-opening the Temple. Loony Rightamentalists have been jumping on this bandwagon in hopes of bringing about the End Times. From [this webpage](http://www.christiancounterculture.com/articles/armageddon.html): > [@](#): > > Since so much was riding on the sacrifice of a perfect red heifer, it was not surprising that some American dispensationalist cattle breeders stepped forward to help produce the needed livestock. Clyde Lott was a Pentecostal cattleman from Canton, Mississippi, who was well schooled in the science of producing champions. In the late 1980s, Lott learned from prophecy teachers that before the temple could be rebuilt in Jerusalem, a perfect red heifer was needed for sacrifice. Given his expertise in cattle production, Lott decided he could help. Through a long process he finally made contact with Rabbi Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute, who was very interested in what Lott had to say. > > In 1990, Lott traveled to Jerusalem to meet with Richman and the institute’s founder, Rabbi Yisrael Ariel. Lott spelled out some of the financial realities of raising red heifers, and the three began searching for the right location in Israel to start a cattle business. The original plan was to transport two hundred pregnant cows to Israel via ocean liners at two thousand dollars per head. By using the methods of genetic science, they were confident that the new herd would eventually produce the perfect red heifer. While the search for land continued in Israel, Lott started his selective breeding program back home in Mississippi. In 1994, Rabbi Richman visited Lott’s operation in Canton, and Lott showed him four recently born calves. To his utter amazement, Richman found among the four a red heifer that seemed to meet all the qualifications of Numbers 19, except that it had been born in the wrong place—in Mississippi, not in Israel. But Richman was convinced that Lott was capable of producing a proper sacrificial calf. > > Lott’s dreams kept expanding. Through his travels in Israel, he concluded that Israel’s entire beef cattle industry was in need of his services. He believed that given their approach to cattle production, Israeli cattle breeders were not only incapable of producing a suitable red heifer but were also producing inferior beef cattle. He intended to greatly improve the quality of Israel’s beef industry at the same time he used his skills to produce a red heifer for the new temple. To that end, he started breeding Red Angus cattle in Nebraska in hopes of shipping thousands of beef cattle to Israel. In 1998, he and Guy Garner founded the Canaan Land Restoration of Israel, Inc., as a nonprofit organization through which Lott hoped to achieve his ambitious goals. Lott proposed to provide cattle free of charge to qualified Israeli cattle breeders on the condition that after a few years they would return to Canaan Land the same number of calves they had received and that they would allow Canaan Land to take every newborn calf that was “special,” that is, met the qualifications of Numbers 19. Lott set out to raise money to finance the project from fellow Christians who wanted to see the temple rebuilt too. He visited churches, went on Christian television, and developed other fund-raising strategies. > > Lott was not the only dispensationalist cattle breeder who wanted to help make prophecy happen. Gershon Salomon of the Temple Faithful reported that he had been in contact with another concerned Christian in Texas who had attended some of Salomon’s meetings in the United States and had become convinced that God was calling him to help in the temple’s rebuilding by producing the needed red heifer. In fact, the rancher eventually reported that he had successfully done so and inquired about the proper care of such a special calf. According to Salomon, the requirements were many: “A Red Heifer needs to be raised and handled in a very special way like a holy thing which is completely dedicated to G-d. It has to be raised in a very special, clean stall and to be fed with special food, and even to be spoiled. She cannot be raised with other calves and especially not with males.” > > In the end, none of these cattle breeding attempts by prophecy-believing ranchers produced the perfect red heifer. Despite his efforts, Lett’s project never quite got off the ground. Before Canaan Land could accomplish any of its goals, Lott and Richman had a falling out over finances and Richman’s discovery that Lott intended to spread the gospel in Israel, which was a deal breaker as far as the Orthodox rabbi was concerned. As it turned out, even before the relationship between Lott and Richman soured, a red heifer was born in Israel without the help of American breeders. The page goes into more detail about the whole Temple restoration movement. If you’re really interested in the whole thing, it’s recommended reading. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/26 "2004-08-17T22:05:46Z")
Ponder Stibbons: > [@](#): > > #2 is rather interesting. Please tell more! Well, there are, according to the Bible, a number of sources of ritual impurity which render a person temporarily unfit for contact with sanctified things (e.g., sacrificial meat, sacrificial vessels) and also not allowed to enter the Temple courtyard (which pretty much included the entire Temple Mount). Most of these types of impurity could be cleansed from a person by immersion in a ritual pool (Mikveh, in Hebrew) after a suitable waiting period. However, impurity contracted from contact with a corpse can only be cleansed through the ritual of the Red Heifer described in Numbers chapter 19. In the absence of such a beast…and they are clearly very rare to come across…anyone who’s ever been in contact or under the same roof as a corpse remains ritually unclean and is not, according to the (Orthodox) Jewish religion, allowed to ascend the Temple Mount. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/27 "2004-08-17T22:27:54Z")
Great cow gag, jayjay! Not so great apocalyptic solution to World Religion jokes, other blokes! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/28 "2004-08-17T22:45:11Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > In the absence of such a beast…and they are clearly very rare to come across… What would qualify as a ‘Red Heifer’ traditionally? Would these work?: [http://www.dirtyboots.com/highland.htm](http://www.dirtyboots.com/highland.htm) I’m not trying to be facetious by they way - I’m genuinely curious. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/29 "2004-08-17T22:53:50Z")
There have been some near-qualifiers for a Red Heiffer in recent years, however some of them have grown a white hair or two on their tail which instantly disqualifies them. It has also been suggested by some that Israel should raise a group of boys in a “safe room” from birth so that they would never come in contact with a dead body in their life, until they are old enough to become a levitical preist and perform the necessary duties. However, Im sure some would cry foul at denying a group of kids a normal life for thier zealous religious ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/30 "2004-08-17T23:42:11Z")
Wouldn’t most people have never come into contact with a dead body (presuming it’s a human body we’re talking about)? I don’t know about the “under the same roof as a dead body” requirement, but wouldn’t that be fairly easy to work around? If you ensure that you never go to a funeral parlour, and no aging family members in your house die suddenly, you’re pretty much set, right? And when is the Temple regarded as having been completed ie becoming the Temple? Is it still the Temple when it’s in construction? That is, could unclean people, participate in the construction of the Temple, or would all work have to be done by ritually clean people? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/31 "2004-08-18T00:49:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: We (i.e., the U.S., or any nation that is sufficiently equipped and gives a fuck) should **nuke Jerusalem.** Evacuate it, compensate all the residents for lost property (plus $100 each for the inconvenience), and nuke it. With dirty bombs. So thoroughly that nobody can go near the site without a radiation suit for another thousand years. In the interests of world peace and quiet. Nothing left to fight over. Umm… Do you own stock in HEPA filter manufacturing companies, or something? Is that why you want to create a tourist industry that requires large scale use of the things? Plus, what exactly is a ‘radiation suit’? Do you mean anti-contamination clothing, and if so, do you own stock in those, too? There is NO suit that protects against **radiation** , and I’m rather tired of seeing that admittedly common misconception. 😃 Seriously - Jews have been going to the wailing wall for the next best thing to 2000 years, and you think a simple thing like a nuke is going to stop them? :eek: In regards to the OP, with the exception of certain Zionist Jews and/or sects, I really don’t believe there is that much _interest_ in rebuilding the Temple without having the Messiah return. In the time since the destruction of the Temple Judaism has evolved, and changed from a religion lead by an ordained priesthood, to the rabbinical tradition. Rebuilding the Temple will change the entire face of modern Judaism by allowing the return of the Levites as the controlling priests. And, frankly, catering to Zionist Jews is a far worse idea to my mind, than doing anything for the purpose of pleasing fundies. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/32 "2004-08-18T01:42:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Are you crazy?! J-lem is the capital of our country! Fuck the historic or religious significance - if you blow the place up, all the politicians and civil servants will start hanging out here in Tel Aviv! We haven’t done anything to deserve _that_. Ok…this is embarassing, but I always thought that Tel Aviv was the capital of Israel. When did it move to Jerusalem? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/33 "2004-08-18T01:45:04Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Ok…this is embarassing, but I always thought that Tel Aviv was the capital of Israel. When did it move to Jerusalem? AFAIK, it’s always been the capital of Israel. For most Americans the confusion (one I shared at one point) seems to stem from the fact that the US embassy to Israel is in Tel Aviv - the only country where our embassy is NOT in the capitol of the respective country. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/34 "2004-08-18T01:49:35Z")
Well, color me stupid, then. I thought that the UN resolution creating Israel and Palestine called for Jerusalem to be some sort of extra-territorial city, like Washington D.C. Am I totally out to lunch? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/35 "2004-08-18T01:56:16Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Well, color me stupid, then. I thought that the UN resolution creating Israel and Palestine called for Jerusalem to be some sort of extra-territorial city, like Washington D.C. Am I totally out to lunch? I’m not an expert, and I’d be willing to bow to anyone else’s expertise, but AIUI, the way that the government of Israel has interpreted that part of the U.N. resolution is that _access_ to Jerusalem is supposed to be unrestricted. But the seat of the government of Israel is still located in Jerusalem. (One has to admit that Jews, practicing or not, have a reputation for stubbornness.) Of course, as I understand it, the proposed capitol of Palestine is ALSO Jerusalem. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/36 "2004-08-18T01:58:19Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > AFAIK, it’s always been the capital of Israel. For most Americans the confusion (one I shared at one point) seems to stem from the fact that the US embassy to Israel is in Tel Aviv - the only country where our embassy is NOT in the capitol of the respective country. Thanks. Ignorance, while not vanquished, has at least been B\*\*\*-slapped. Just went to the CIA world factbook for a reality check (something I probably should have done before opening my pie-hole) and found this: > [@](#): > > Capital: Jerusalem; note - Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, but the US, like nearly all other countries, maintains its Embassy in Tel Aviv . ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/37 "2004-08-18T02:22:09Z")
> [@Got Taste?](#): > > As if Jewish weddings dont take long enough… I don’t get it, and Mrs. Plant who was born Jewish doesn’t get it, either. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/38 "2004-08-18T02:31:01Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > Wouldn’t most people have never come into contact with a dead body (presuming it’s a human body we’re talking about)? I don’t know about the “under the same roof as a dead body” requirement, but wouldn’t that be fairly easy to work around? If you ensure that you never go to a funeral parlour, and no aging family members in your house die suddenly, you’re pretty much set, right? No, because you also become unclean if you stand on a grave. “Aha!”, you say, “I just won’t go to any cemetaries.” Not so fast. How do you know when you’re walking down the street, somebody didn’t get buried where you’re walking and then the grave just got forgotten about? So, to be safe, there’s an assumption of uncleanliness there. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/39 "2004-08-18T02:45:19Z")
**Bizzwire** , the capital of Israel is, like everything else in the Israel-Palestine area, a debatable topic. Most countries hold that the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv, since that is less contentious, ie less likely to offend Palestinians and some Arab countries. I believe Australia, my home country, is in this camp. Some allies of Israel hold that the capital is Jerusalem, notably the US. This is the Israeli position. The CIA World Factbook info reflects this position and is not an undebated fact. I believe some Arab nations do not recognize any capital, as they still do not recognize the nation itself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/40 "2004-08-18T02:58:29Z")
So a Jewish mortician would be majorly screwed, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215.md?page=3)