# SHOULD Israel Rebuild The Temple? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215 "2004-08-17T07:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/101 "2004-08-24T03:47:57Z")
Cripes. I can’t write, I can’t spell. Forgive me. Crunch time at work. I dash off posts between steps in my experiments, and I’ve been working some crazy hours. My brain is mush. I’ll try to do better (e.g. I’ll make some effort to proofread) in the future. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/102 "2004-08-24T15:47:00Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Y’know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder “If anything, what in the _heck_ was this Ark?” > > It’s one of those elements of the story that is sufficiently bizarre so as to make me wonder if there isn’t some kernal of factual information there. I think I remember reading someplace that the Egyptians used to construct boxes of similar design, and as the Jews were purportedly held in bondage in Egypt for centuries, it would be no surprise that they picked up some of their art. Some Egyptian biers, in fact, resemble the Ark superficially, and as the Ark is a kind of portable throne, there’s another possible link to an Egyptian aesthetic. > > But then things get weird. The Ark is extremely dangerous, to _anybody_. Just approaching it the wrong way could mean death as Nabdab and Abihu discovered fatally in Leviticus. Oops! Glowing light would emanate from the “Mercy Seat” and strike enemiess and friends alike dead. Joshua tells people to keep thousands of feet away from it while crossing the Jordan (Josh. 3), I suppose for their own protection. Poor Uzzah tries to lend a helping hand just to keep it upright, and gets smited (2 Sam.) > > The Philistines, when putting the Ark in the temple of their god Dagon, in Ashdod, they find their statue of Dagon desecrated, and then they suffer an epidemic of tumors. So they move it to Gath. Everyone in Gath gets tumors. So they try to take it to Ekron. The Ekronites say (paraphrasing) “No way! We don’t want it! That thing’s gonna kill us! Give it back to the Israelites!” So, after seven months of affliction, with thousands of deaths due to the plauges of tumors, the Philistines finally give it up, throwing a few golden rats and tumors into the bargain, to help smooth matters over, I guess. But even as they tried to return the thing, it smites another 70 Philistines on the way( 1 Sam). > > The Ark kinda comes across as the prototypical weapon of mass destruction. If G-d favored the Israelites, carrying it to battle assured victory. But being such a potent artifact made it perilous just to have it around, yet it seems the Israelites were willing to put up with a few inadvertent deaths to keep it around. > > I don’t think anything like this Ark, beyond some similarities in appearance, shows up anywhere in any of the mythology of the Near East. It’s really quite unique, and even more odd when you consider the Jewish aversion to things like Golden Calves and the like. It’s almost ironic: Moses goes up the mountain; Aaron et al. build a Golden Calf; Moses comes down, sets them straight, and right away they build a golden Ark instead. And in that Ark sits the Lord. Flames shoot from it to consume sacrificial offerings. Look inside? Die! > > Weird! Don’t you think? I mean, I know the Bible is full of weirdness, but the Ark, if you ask me, is in quite a league of its own. It almost makes me wonder if there isn’t something, possibly, who knows, to this Leyden jar hypothesis. It’s a fascinating story, whatever the origin. From reading the text of the Ten Commandments, the irony seems to be answered by the fact that the ancient Jews didn’t believe that there weren’t other gods, but that _their_ god was the most powerful. “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” Note that doesn’t say “I am the only God, and all others are false”. Thus worshipping a graven image of another god such as the Golden Calf is a Bad Thing. However, worshipping something that represents the Hebrew god (the Ark contained the text of His Commandments) was OK. Note also “for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God”. Why would the Lord thy God need to be jealous if others worshipped some non-existant god? ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/103 "2004-08-25T15:24:58Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > To me, it would be a bit like the restoration of colonial Williamsburg-just a bit of the past, brought back tolife! > Anyone disagree? 😕 yea, but only you you should read this > [@](#): > > **BEWARE THE RED HEIFER** > How religious nutballs could start World War III > > While the American secretary of state shuttles back and forth between Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon, trying desperately to cobble together a) a ceasefire, and b) some basis for a settlement of the world’s most tiresome perpetual crisis, it behooves us to examine the issue of … the red heifer. > > Say what? > > You heard me, I said the red heifer…. > THE ESCHATOLOGICAL FACTOR > > It all has to do with eschatology, a religious conception of the Final Days of mankind, a scenario mapped out by three of the world’s major religions in very similar (and specific) detail. The focus is on the Temple Mount – the site of Ariel Sharon’s provocative visit that set off the current intifada, and also site of the First Temple of the Hebrews. Destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar, and then again by the Romans, according to Jewish traditionalists the Third Temple will be built by the Messiah, who will be not only king of Israel but also high priest of the rebuilt Temple. To the Muslim Palestinians, and their co-religionists worldwide, this is the site of the Dome of the Rock, a Muslim shrine, the sacred al-Aqsa mosque, and the place where Mohammed mounted a fine Arabian horse and galloped straight up to heaven. A large number of Christian fundamentalists have also imbued this spot with millennialist import: according to this “dispensationalist” view, Jesus Christ will return to earth to do battle on the plain of Armageddon and triumph over the Antichrist only after the building of the Third Temple. Dreher cites Gershom Gorenberg, whose book, End of Days: Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount, describes the apocalyptic intersection of religion and politics both in Israel and the US: > > “What happens at that one spot, more than anywhere else, quickens expectations of the End in three religions. And at that spot, the danger of provoking catastrophe is greatest.” > > I hate to tell you this, but the danger just got much greater. Now, as for that red heifer…. > > The key thing to remember, in all this mythological murk, is that no religious Jew is allowed to set foot on the Temple Mount, for fear of desecrating the sacred ground. In any case, the Temple can only be reconstructed when the Messiah returns to save his people, and, so far, no Messiah, and no Third Temple. But not all Israelis are willing to assume such a passive stance, tradition or no tradition. Ever since Israel came into possession of old Jerusalem, in 1967, a fanatical group of Israeli nationalists have tried to kick-start the eschatological machinery, plotting the destruction of the Muslim shrines and busily constructing the various ritual objects for use in the rebuilt Temple. These Israeli nutballs have forged a natural alliance with our Christian nutballs, who have their own theological rationale for hurrying Apocalypse along. They are dispensationalists, who believe – among other things – that the colonization of the Holy Land by the children of Israel signals the second coming of Christ: the efforts of these “Christian Zionists” account for the uncritical support for Israel among many “born again” Christian conservatives. > > Okay, so now we get to the part about the red heifer: it turns out that, although no religious Jew is allowed on the Temple Mount, there’s a loophole – it’s okay if he or she is first purified in the ashes of a pure red heifer. These creatures are exceedingly rare. One was born a couple of years ago, in Israel, but it soon began sprouting white hairs on its tail and was deemed insufficiently pure by the rabbinical authorities. Ah, but science found a way around the fickleness of God’s creation, and through the modern miracle of genetic engineering – and funding provided by “Christian Zionists” in America – a red heifer has been bred, and pronounced pure. As Dreher points out, the world media covered this as a joke, but in reality the red heifer is the theological and political equivalent of a suitcase nuke waiting to go off. Dreher cites Richard Landes, a professor of history at Boston University and director of the Center for Millennial Studies: > > “’It’s entirely conceivable that this [red heifer] could trigger a new round of attempts to blow up the Dome of the Rock.’ This is something the Israeli security forces have long been vigilant against. But with their attentions drawn elsewhere by the war with the Palestinians, it’s possible that a radical group could slip the net. And it’s possible that religious extremists elements within the Israeli army could help them.” you can read the whole article here [http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j041502.html](http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j041502.html) ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/104 "2004-08-25T16:05:32Z")
Oh, puh-leez. Red heifer, red shmeffer. Even if a red heifer does show up tomorrow, there’s not a great deal that can be done with it until the messiah arrives anyway. No one’s going to blow up the Dome of the Rock because a red heifer is born (aside from those nuts who’d want to blow up tDotR anyway…). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/105 "2004-08-25T16:16:18Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > From reading the text of the Ten Commandments, the irony seems to be answered by the fact that the ancient Jews didn’t believe that there weren’t other gods, but that _their_ god was the most powerful. Deuteronomy 4:39 would seem to disagree with you > [@](#): > > You should know this day and set it in your heart that Hashem [a common Jewish substitute for the name of God] is God in the heavens and on the earth **there is no other** Note that doesn’t say “I am the only God, and all others are false”. Thus worshipping a graven image of another god such as the Golden Calf is a Bad Thing. However, worshipping something that represents the Hebrew god (the Ark contained the text of His Commandments) was OK. Note also “for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God”. Why would the Lord thy God need to be jealous if others worshipped some non-existant god? [/QUOTE] Because idol worship is a Bad Thing. For the same reason that I don’t want my children going around calling Cliff Huxtable “father” even though there is no such person. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![bootyhunter16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bootyhunter16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bootyhunter16)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/106 "2004-08-26T12:22:54Z")
Not yet. The messiah hasn’t even come yet. Do things one at a time…😉 Besides, we don’t even know if the messiah is actually going to come, or whether we’re going to have the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/107 "2004-08-27T01:16:47Z")
As long as you’re discussing the location of the Ark of the Covenant, you shouldn’t leave out the [claim that it is located in Ethiopia](http://www.baseinstitute.org/covenant.html), carefully guarded in a closed chapel into which outsiders are not permitted. It seems unlikely, of course…but hard to disprove if they won’t let anyone see it. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/108 "2004-08-27T02:04:02Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > From reading the text of the Ten Commandments, the irony seems to be answered by the fact that the ancient Jews didn’t believe that there weren’t other gods, but that _their_ god was the most powerful. > > “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” > > Note that doesn’t say “I am the only God, and all others are false”. Thus worshipping a graven image of another god such as the Golden Calf is a Bad Thing. However, worshipping something that represents the Hebrew god (the Ark contained the text of His Commandments) was OK. Note also “for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God”. Why would the Lord thy God need to be jealous if others worshipped some non-existant god? Well, some people think that Judaism began as [henotheism](http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00104851?single=1&query_type=word&queryword=henotheism&edition=2e&first=1&max_to_show=10), the worship of or allegiance to one god above others while still acknowledging the existence of the other gods. That is, yhwh would originally have been one of a large pantheon in the region - there are some suggestions he was once considered the god of storms and lightning. Note that henotheism becomes monotheism pretty easily. The Commandment you quote could come from a henotheistic religion, but it’s also suitable for a Judaism that has been strictly monotheistic for nearly three millenia, as **Zev** indicates. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/109 "2004-08-27T03:46:33Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Deuteronomy 4:39 would seem to disagree with you And Psalms 82:1 would seem to agree with me. Along with Genesis 1:26. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215/110 "2004-08-27T04:30:06Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > And Psalms 82:1 would seem to agree with me. Along with Genesis 1:26. See explanation above. This isn’t a right-wrong argument. If the henotheistic theory of Judaism is correct, you should expect a few anomalous verses that appear to indicate that the early Jews thought of yhwh as one god amongst many. It doesn’t affect the fact that Judaism is now, and has been for nearly three millenia, a monotheistic religion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-israel-rebuild-the-temple/260215.md?page=5)