# Should it be illegal to insult authors? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684 "2016-04-20T00:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/21 "2016-04-20T12:27:03Z")
> [@Zuzu\_s\_Petals](#): > > ‘Gaoled’ is the UK spelling. **thelurkinghorror** was making a funny. 🙂 > > ETA: Wait. You’re in Scotland. You know that already. Doh! I’ll go back to mostly lurking. People in the UK overwhelmingly use “jail” and “jailed” when the topic arises. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/22 "2016-04-20T12:56:11Z")
If/when insults become illegal, it’s a clear sign that we no longer live in a free society. Yes, insults leave a mark and can be damaging, and if you do it, you’re a jerk, but there’s plenty of things that aren’t, and shouldn’t be, illegal that only jerks do. Especially when it comes to art, we need to have an open way to discuss the work, and I do think there’s a lot of ways to do so while remaining respectful, but it’s all but impossible to make a hard objective line about what should and shouldn’t be allowed. Sure, it’s probably not TOO difficult when talking about simple and popular art, but it becomes increasingly difficult and muddy as we get to more obscure, fringe, or controversial topics. The problem is, it’s precisely those types of works, the ones that explore difficult topics and hit on touchy subjects are the ones that need the MOST discussion. That all said, legality of insults doesn’t seem to be the point the quote in the OP is getting at. We’re talking about the forum of discussion and, especially when it comes to the internet, this is almost always going to be something that isn’t the same. For all the amazing things the internet gives us, one of the problems that it has brought forth is that, as easy as it is to say whatever you want anonymously, it allows people to go to some of those dark and sadistic or mean mean places, or just someone who enjoys a bit schadenfreude or trolling. Compare a forum like this to general youtube comments and we can see how a little bit of moderating goes a long way. The difference is, unlike the government, which we generally can’t escape, and can threaten people with fines and jail time, it’s just ONE site among countless others that just cuts a little bit or maybe banishes someone. If someone REALLY wants to rip into something, there’s definitely a community out there somewhere, or they can make their own blog or video or whatever and say whatever they want. If there’s an audience, they’ll be heard, and if there isn’t, no one will care. It’s the communities policing themselves, including those who fit in. This isn’t censorship, it’s free association; it really doesn’t get any much freer than that. That said, I still think there’s precaution that should be taken. In my view, artists NEED to expose themselves to critics, sometimes even harsh critics. It’s great to always hear how awesome my creations are, but how can I expect to grow as an artist if I don’t get constructive criticism? And this is where that nebulous line comes back in. If I have thin skin and I take well-intentioned criticism badly and block it out, I’m hurting myself and my fans. OTOH, if I allow EVERYTHING, including “you suck and should kill yourself” comments, I’m also hurting myself by taking in comments meant to cause harm and drown out legitimate ones, and then discouraging fans and critics from engaging by reducing the signal to noise ratio. Interestingly enough, it seems like it’s just a light touch that’s needed, and a good community largely handles itself. I’ve seen plenty of youtube channels where the comments are almost always awesome, disagreements are respectful, and even when an asshole does show up, it usually is so drowned out by that quality discussion that sometimes at a certain point no moderating is needed anymore. Ultimately, I’d rather have an open forum to freely discuss ideas and deal with a little bit of trolling now and then, than the opposite, even if that does mean that a lot of that responsibility falls on us to do a better job of being constructive and drowning out the negativity. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/23 "2016-04-20T13:26:30Z")
The only thing I see in the linked article about the legality of insults is this line: “law enforcement agencies still haven’t sorted how to deal with online abusers”. As to what constitutes abuse in her mind, is it name-calling? Having her articles deemed “stupid”? Having her appearance commented on? All of the above? No question, being threatened should be grounds for law enforcement action. Otherwise content-free name-calling can be moderated out of existence in comments sections. But having people arrested in the U.K. on “suspicion of malicious communications” sounds Orwellian. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/24 "2016-04-20T13:28:18Z")
From the article in the OP - > [@](#): > > I don’t read the comments any more… I don’t see the problem. Why is the author so determined to feed the trolls over things she hasn’t seen? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/25 "2016-04-20T18:06:06Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > Somewhere along the line, our culture unfortunately decided that people have a right not to be offended. Once that right is established, it does away with all other rights, since virtually anything that anyone does or says carries the possibility of offending someone, somewhere. The OP is a reflection of that attitude, if you ask me, as are the links from the UK about people being arrested for saying or posting “offensive” messages. Very early on. Why else was homosexual behavior ever illegal? What are laws against prostitution or public nudity but laws agains activities that offend some people? I don’t think there is anything new about this. What is new is how little it seems to take to offend some people. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/26 "2016-04-20T18:12:21Z")
Right not to be offended? What people are asking for is societal support for the notion they ought not to be belittled, marginalized, or oppressed based in their identity. Your characterizing that as a “right not to be offended” is just further belittling and marginalization of them. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/27 "2016-04-20T18:12:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No author—whether thick-skinned or not—has the legal, moral, or ethical obligation to allow comments of any particular nature directly on his or her own forum. Even a traditional newspaper always had the right to choose what letters to the editor to publish. Agreed 100%. But in 9 cases out of 10, any popular article will be discussed on Social Media outside the source newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/28 "2016-04-20T18:16:56Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > The difference is, unlike the government, which we generally can’t escape, and can threaten people with fines and jail time, it’s just ONE site among countless others that just cuts a little bit or maybe banishes someone. If someone REALLY wants to rip into something, there’s definitely a community out there somewhere, or they can make their own blog or video or whatever and say whatever they want. If there’s an audience, they’ll be heard, and if there isn’t, no one will care. It’s the communities policing themselves, including those who fit in. **This isn’t censorship, it’s free association;** it really doesn’t get any much freer than that. Agreed 100% – Free Association is as important as Free Speech. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/29 "2016-04-20T18:19:08Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > In this [article](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/14/insults-rape-threats-writers-online-harassment) Jessica Valenti argues that authors should endure “Insults and rape threats”. Hate to nitpick but you mean “shouldn’t ,” right? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/30 "2016-04-20T18:20:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Hate to nitpick but you mean “shouldn’t ,” right? OOch! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/31 "2016-04-20T18:30:04Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Of course it’s ok to insult anyone (not threaten). However, why would anyone want to insult an author? Just don’t read the book. Or if you did read it and don’t like it, post horrible reviews of it that touch on the book’s lack of merit. If you manage to cut into the author’s sales with your horrible reviews, that will bother the author more than hurling insults. I can see how some authors see bad published, as opposed to on-line, reviews as insults. There are enough angry letters in the Times Book Review to prove this. Of course it is more professional to say that the book stinks rather say that the author can’t write, but saying that the author knows nothing about writing or the field can also be appropriate. And the proper response to whining authors is always grow a spine. To the OP - would you support similar rules for actors. IIRC the critic John Simon used to call actresses he didn’t like ugly. But in general people feel more connected to actors and actresses, and more willing to say horrible things, than they do to writers. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/32 "2016-04-20T18:35:36Z")
I’d prefer that it was illegal for authors and politicians to insult readers. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/33 "2016-04-20T18:41:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Right not to be offended? What people are asking for is societal support for the notion they ought not to be belittled, marginalized, or oppressed based in their identity. Your characterizing that as a “right not to be offended” is just further belittling and marginalization of them. Identity as a writer? Any valid criticism could be seen as belittlement by those with thin skins. Marginalization? Anyone who manages to publish something that attracts enough attention to draw insults is probably less marginalized than those doing the insulting. Trolls are far more at the margins of society than those they attack. Oppressed? Only under very loose definitions of oppression. Do you think the people with power to publish pay any attention at all to insults in comments sections? I’m all for the owners of media outlets enforcing standards of politeness, and all for those who can’t hold to those standards being pushed to the margins where no reasonable author will read their crap. But let’s not think that we’re protected from nastiness everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/34 "2016-04-20T18:52:31Z")
If you are a woman writing on the internet you are quite likely to be barraged with vile misogynist insults and threats of violence. If you don’t think that that has a real effect on women then you’re in a position of privilege yourself. And sure banning comments on your own site won’t eliminate vile language everywhere, but it is fooling yourself if you think it doesn’t mean something significant for the organization you work for to do something about in on its own website. No publisher should feel even a little bit obligated to actually host attacks on its own writers. And maybe I’d go a further step here. Posts on the Internet literally threatening rape or other violence against a real person should be illegal and treated as a real threat. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/35 "2016-04-20T19:26:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No author—whether thick-skinned or not—has the legal, moral, or ethical obligation to allow comments of any particular nature directly on his or her own forum. Even a traditional newspaper always had the right to choose what letters to the editor to publish. > > Especially in this atmosphere in which online commenters feel free to make vile statements of no substantial import, especially when the writer is a woman or a racial minority, I see no reason to expect publications to host open comments. > > Even in the physical world, you don’t have a right to barge into someone’s house or office and berate them. And even in the public street there is such a thing as harassment. Agreed, You can insult all you like, but they should be able to ban you from their own website. Rape threats are particularly gross but they happen all the time. When I think of everything that happened to Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu - that was fucking insane and they had every right to limit their exposure to that kind of stuff. Of course the assholes on the Internet found them in every corner they tried to hide in. I swear that whole thing has made me think so little of the gaming community… Doxxing should be illegal as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/36 "2016-04-20T20:06:51Z")
I’d prefer that it be illegal to suppress free speech that hurts your feelings. We’ll call it the OH GROW UP ALREADY bill. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/37 "2016-04-20T20:21:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’d prefer that it be illegal to suppress free speech that hurts your feelings. > > We’ll call it the OH GROW UP ALREADY bill. Agreed. IMO, insult = freedom of expression. Threat = potential crime that needs to be addressed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/38 "2016-04-20T20:28:10Z")
I may be voting against my own interests, but I clearly have to say it should be legal to insult anyone, author or not. Besides, people are going to do it anyway, regardless of whether there’s a law in place or not. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/39 "2016-04-20T20:51:44Z")
The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization. – Sigmund Freud ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684/40 "2016-04-20T20:59:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If you are a woman writing on the internet you are quite likely to be barraged with vile misogynist insults and threats of violence. If you don’t think that that has a real effect on women then you’re in a position of privilege yourself. > > And sure banning comments on your own site won’t eliminate vile language everywhere, but it is fooling yourself if you think it doesn’t mean something significant for the organization you work for to do something about in on its own website. > > No publisher should feel even a little bit obligated to actually host attacks on its own writers. > > And maybe I’d go a further step here. Posts on the Internet literally threatening rape or other violence against a real person should be illegal and treated as a real threat. Posts on the internet threatening violence are already illegal. It’s illegal to threaten people with violence, whether those threats are made in person, or by phone, or by mail, or on TV, or on the radio, or on the internet. The only difference is that it’s very easy for someone across the continent to make a threat with a few mouse clicks. And so threats by anonymous people on the internet aren’t taken as seriously as other threats, just because it’s so easy to do. There are plenty of people who have been charged and convicted for making threats on the internet, here’s just one example: [http://sdnews.com/view/full\_story/305321/article-Judge-denies-bail-for-email-threat-to-seal-activist](http://sdnews.com/view/full_story/305321/article-Judge-denies-bail-for-email-threat-to-seal-activist)? Does that mean you’re likely to see the inside of a jail cell if you send an anonymous email threat to someone? No, especially if you take a few elementary precautions to really anonymize yourself, and it might be hard to get the cops to care. But it certainly isn’t legal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-it-be-illegal-to-insult-authors/752684.md?page=3)