# Should Joe Biden Testify During the Impeachment Hearings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 29, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540 "2019-12-29T09:13:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/121 "2019-12-30T22:44:52Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > I believe that Trump may put forward a defence that his action’s in pursuing Biden for corrupt actions fell within his executive authority. If he does pursue that defence, then it’s relevant for the Senate to assess whether there were legitimate reasons for thinking that Biden was corrupt. If Trump blamed the Lizard People for blackmailing Ukraine, must we hear from them to? What if Trump blamed you for holding up the aid? Would you then need to testify? What if Trump blamed every single Clinton voter in 2016 for wrongdoing? Must the Senate hear from 65 million people? The point I’m making is that Trump is clearly making up bullshit and that doesn’t mean a body doing a serious job needs to buy into his nonsense. Nobody can say what Joe Biden did that was wrong or unethical; therefore calling him as a witness makes no sense since he is not actually involved in the facts of the matter except to throw up chaff. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/122 "2019-12-30T22:53:57Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Trump wanted the Bidens investigated for corruption, and yes he wanted a public announcement of that investigation. The evidence shows this is untrue. Trump’s main interlocutor for months prior to the phone call, and even to this day, in seeking the investigation was his personal attorney, not any government agency. Barr didn’t even know the July phone call happened. There is no evidence that there was an effort to seek a legitimate investigation into any laws being broken. It was all about Rudy getting dirt to further Trump’s ambitions. There really isn’t any other plausible reading of the facts, unless one is totally in the tank for Trump. Seriously, Trump supporters are peddling Pizzagate level bullshit here. It’s frightening that they actually don’t seem to know how much they have lost touch with the reality-based community. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/123 "2019-12-30T23:06:20Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Senator Broomstick, I have never – Answer the question yes or no. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Senator Broomstick, I – Answer the question yes or no. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Sena– _Answer the question yes or no: Have you stopped beating your wife?_ Later, headline for Fox News: “Wrenching Spanners will not deny beating his wife!” What the hell makes you think anyone is going to play fair? > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > First of all, it is entirely appropriate for the executive of a country to request assistance of the executive of another country to perform investigations on their soil. No, it’s not. Or rather, that is at the heart of the dispute here. Let’s hold a trial to make that determination, hmm? > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > You, and other posters, seem to think that Trump should have directed any investigations through a law enforcement agency. Guess what? I agree with you. But failure to follow the expected process is not an impeachable offence. Incorrect. An “impeachable offense” is whatever the House decides it is. The current House of Representatives has decided it is. It is done. It is up to the Senate to determine whether or not that warrants removing Trump from office. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > The question is if Trump committed an impeachable offence by requesting the investigation of a political opponent. A defence against that charge is that there was actual corruption and investigation of that corruption falls within the authority of the executive. No, it’s not. If it’s wrong to ask another country to investigate a political opponent then it is wrong regardless of whether or not the subject of the investigation did anything wrong. Why are you having trouble comprehending that? If the police kick in your door and perform an unauthorized - that is, illegal - search of your person and possessions then that action is wrong _regardless_ of whether or not you yourself are guilty of anything. They don’t get pardoned because they turned up something wrong. Indeed, under our system of law conducting an illegal search can result in a criminal going free because the product of an illegal search can not be used as evidence in a trial. Again - _what the Bidens were or were not doing is completely irrelevant to Trump’s upcoming Senate trial and whether or not Trump is guilty of wrong-doing_. Stop trying to make this about the Bidens. It’s about Trump - what he did or did not do. Not what anyone else was doing or not doing. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Should the Senate want to ask those questions and subpoena either Biden to ask those questions, is it within their purview? Yes. No. Not for determining whether or not Trump should be removed from office based upon the current impeachment. Again, this is nothing but a ploy to turn Trump’s trial into a trial for someone else. When is Trump going to be called to account for HIS actions, instead of someone else taking the fall for him? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/124 "2019-12-30T23:17:08Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Trump wanted the Bidens investigated for corruption, and yes he wanted a public announcement of that investigation. If Trump wanted such an investigation why didn’t he ask the FBI to investigate? > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Trump may offer as his defence in the impeachment trial that calling for an investigation and requesting that it was announced were within the bounds of his executive authority. Ok, do you understand that the impeachment occurred because the House determined it was NOT within his executive authority? > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > That then raises the question of whether it was reasonable to pursue the Bidens for corruption. If the Senate wants to address that question, then they have the right to so, and that includes calling witnesses to testify, which includes the Bidens. Making Trump’s trial into a trial of the Biden’s? No, that’s not legal, that’s not right, in fact, it’s pretty fucked up. IF there is a reason to investigate the Biden’s it should be done through normal legal channels, not as a distraction from Trump trying desperately to get out of the consequences of his actions. The Senate trial is about TRUMP. No one else. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > This isn’t just throwing out facts as a distraction. It’s an argument I’ve been making throughout this thread, backing it up with cites and substance. The problem here is that you are flat out wrong. Repeating the same falsehood(s) over and over will not magically make them right. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/125 "2019-12-30T23:26:47Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Stressing the importance of Congress not “overriding the will of the electorate” is exactly the opposite of bullshit. Impeachment is NOT "overriding the will of the electorate for two reasons: 1. Congress ALSO represents the “will of the electorate”. 2. The “will of the electorate” made Pence Vice President, ready to take over if _for any reason_ Trump is unable to fulfill the duties of the office of President. Remove Trump and his duly elected alternate becomes PotUS - Pence, who is still a devoted Republican. How much do think that will actually change things? > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Bill Clinton didn’t deserve to be impeached over a blow job. Clinton wasn’t impeached over a blowjob - he was impeached for LYING about a blowjob. Also note that no one felt compelled to ask Monica Lewinski to testify, either. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > The partisan actions of the Republicans in the Clinton impeachment created a precedent that many Democrats have wanted to exploit since Trump was elected. Actually, since Bush the Younger was decreed winner by the SCotUS. And yet that didn’t happen, did it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/126 "2019-12-31T01:18:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Impeachment is NOT "overriding the will of the electorate for two reasons: Plus, what a manufactured concern. As if in the minds of 42% of the country, “not breaking the law” isn’t a priority. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/127 "2019-12-31T04:31:25Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Given that Biden’s actions in Ukraine were apparently sanctioned by Obama, can’t he declare executive privilege as well? Republican Constitutional theologians still debate whether the radiant nimbus of Executive Privilege is manifested by the Oath of Office or by the Electoral College. There is unanimous agreement, however, that an _illegitimate_ President of uncertain nativity has no divine penumbra. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/128 "2019-12-31T06:56:55Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > If Biden has nothing to hide, then he should welcome the chance to testify before the Senate and be exonerated, correct? I realize you’re Just Asking Questions, but some questions are just too silly even for this ignorance-fighting Board. (Obviously my comment is NOT directed at **Mr. Spanners** , who may have left his keyboard unguarded.) > [@Broomstick](#): > > Not only should Biden not be there, the partisan idiots who proposed this idea should be struck on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and firmly told “No!” Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/129 "2019-12-31T10:41:40Z")
Can we at least get an unredacted transcript of the Ukraine call before going fishing? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/130 "2019-12-31T11:19:56Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Should Joe Biden Testify During the Impeachment Hearings? No. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/131 "2019-12-31T14:27:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can see this working out for Biden if he makes sure to include in every response a reference to how much Trump is being a pussy, unable to face him in a fair fight. > > In fact, he should be saying this _now_. Yup. Trump has handed this to Biden on a silver platter. Every interview, Biden should lead with some version of “I would love to testify before Congress about what I know about Trump’s various crimes. While I have no direct knowledge of all of those crimes, if Congress wishes to hear from me anyway, I believe that’s appropriate. For now, however, the Republican party has determined that they do not wish to hear from any witnesses about Trump’s criminal activity. So, once Congress determines to hear from all the fact witnesses, including Mr. Trump who appears to be hiding from them, I would be glad to set a date.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/132 "2019-12-31T16:17:11Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Yup. Trump has handed this to Biden on a silver platter. Every interview, Biden should lead with some version of “I would love to testify before Congress about what I know about Trump’s various crimes. While I have no direct knowledge of all of those crimes, if Congress wishes to hear from me anyway, I believe that’s appropriate. For now, however, the Republican party has determined that they do not wish to hear from any witnesses about Trump’s criminal activity. So, once Congress determines to hear from all the fact witnesses, including Mr. Trump who appears to be hiding from them, I would be glad to set a date.” Yeah, that’s good… Biden should hit the “Trump’s criminal activities” button a lot, work it into every interview at least once. Also, “I look forward to testifying and hearing President Trump’s testimony,” saying it like it’s a given that Trump will indeed testify. Biden should never discuss the possibility of giving testimony without linking it to Trump doing the same. Hmm… what’s the odd expected feeling I’m getting… could it be… _hope?_ Optimism? Maybe this will be a happy new year after all. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/133 "2019-12-31T21:17:10Z")
Of course Biden should testify when called by Trump’s defence, right after the prosecution hears the testimony of Bolten, Pompeo, and all the other witnesses they call. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/134 "2020-01-01T00:32:02Z")
I doubt Moscow Mitch will allow any witnessing because once they start, they’re hard to stop. Easier to just have Faux Nüz report on what witnesses WOULD have said. All former and current Trampsters would exonerate this POTUS. All else are partisan traitors or turncoats against the God-Emperor. Vote: Not guilty. Now go home. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/135 "2020-01-01T03:17:07Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > I doubt Moscow Mitch will allow any witnessing because once they start, they’re hard to stop. Easier to just have Faux Nüz report on what witnesses WOULD have said. All former and current Trampsters would exonerate this POTUS. All else are partisan traitors or turncoats against the God-Emperor. Vote: Not guilty. Now go home. Roberts might be [signaling](https://static.politico.com/5c/8a/f77f9a7f4d0e9eb43805ce7acb1a/2019-year-end-report.embargo.pdf) that he is not on board with this. \* “Happily, Hamilton, Madison, and Jay ulti-mately succeeded in convincing the public of the virtues of the principles embodied in the Constitution. Those principles leave no place for mob violence. But in the ensuing years, we have come to take democracy for granted, and civic education has fallen by the wayside. In our age, when social media can instantly spread rumor and false information on a grand scale, the public’s need to under-stand our government, and the protections it provides, is ever more vital.”\* ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540/136 "2020-01-01T16:41:07Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > So Biden get’s to decide that, and determine at the same time that his judgement override’s that of the Senate? I’m pretty sure that’s not an option available to witnesses at most other trials. In a normal trial, the judge won’t allow either the prosecution or defense to call a witness who is irrelevant to the case, and if either side asks a witness an irrelevant question, the other side can object and have the question disallowed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-joe-biden-testify-during-the-impeachment-hearings/845540.md?page=6)