I thought it was old Jerry that had the fixation on having things in his lap? Did I miss part of this story?
Paterno’s sworn testimony is that he was told in 2002 that Sandusky had been seen in the shower fondling or doing something sexual with a child. (Cite: the espn article I linked to above).
Paterno also knew that Schultz (who, not incidentally, has been charged with perjury and failing to report the matter to police, as he was required) didn’t report it to the police because there was no police investigation or follow-up of any kind. If it had been reported, the police would have interviewed him as a witness.
And Paterno knew that Sandusky was still allowed on campus, was still a professor emeritus, and was still hanging around other young boys both in his Second Mile charity and at overnight football camps Sandusky ran at Penn State’s satellite campuses.
I think it’s clear that Paterno didn’t follow up on the 2002 incident because he already knew damn well what Sandusky was up to and didn’t want to get involved. I think he deserved to be removed from his position as a college coach.
Actually, yes we do.
And we know what Paterno’s basic answer was: ‘Just don’t do it around here anymore’.
I can’t fathom how people like Paterno and McQueary could stand being around a guy that they had every reason to believe was a serial child raper.
That Paterno didn’t immediately offer to resign earlier this week when the story broke says all I need to know about where JoePa’s priorities were - and they weren’t with the kids or the university.
I have a small boy and a small girl. And if that was one of my kids involved? I’d happily spend the rest of my life in prison for what I’d do to Sandusky and the others that let kids be abused for 10+ years…because of a football team. And I say that as the biggest sports fan in the world.
Cite? Please cite that Paterno either made these statements, or took actions with those aims.
We do know what Paterno says he knew and when he knew it though. And that is more than enough to fire him for. His grand jury testimony is that he was told in 2002 that “that Sandusky was engaged in fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a boy.” So in 2002, by his own testimony, he knew Sandusky was accused of molesting a boy. Paterno had a moral responsibility to the school and the alleged boy. He did not act on it. And in his own words, “This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.”
There doesn’t need to be illegality to fire a coach. He wishes he had done more. We wish he had done more. And the trustees have now fired him for not doing more. In the end there may be criminal charges or civil lawsuits against Paterno based on his role in this tragedy. And on those we can and should withhold judgement for further information. But we already have enough info to render judgement on whether he should keep his job. And the answer is clearly that no he shouldn’t.
A keystone in due process before a court of law.
Your employers, OTOH, can fire you on the spot and ask questions later for merely embarassing them , unless there’s a prior law or contract saying otherwise.
Which as trustees, ass-covering is justly and rightly a huge part of their job.
Maybe the facts do not merit for for Juror me to convict him of a crime in a court of law, but the situation merits for Trustee me to terminate the relationship with the institution lest there be further liability.
Penn State is very exposed to potential civil lawsuits from Sandusky’s victims in this scandal. By not taking swift action against those that had knowledge and did nothing, Penn State would be potentially even further exposing themselves to even greater damages.
Cleaning house is very standard in these types of situations. It was very presumptuous of Joe Pa to believe he could dictate his pwn exit in this situation. PSU trustees did the right thing.
This may be my favorite typo ever on this board.
This point has been made in the Pit Thread, and it’s worth reiterating here:
If a person witnesses a sexual assault on a child and they decide to just report it to their boss, they’re probably in a dysfunctional organization.
Far better responses:
–Try to stop the action (make a lot of noise.)
–Call the police on the closest phone.
There are gray areas for organizational misdeeds, but this isn’t one of them. This was in a public school, not the military or a competitive private corporation. This was sexual assault on a child, not borderline illegal lobbying or a soldier violating procedure while under fire.
It’s possible to make legal excuses for Joe Paterno’s behavior, and those excuses will hopefully get a completely fair airing during any trials. But the culture of Penn State and its athletic department is seriously messed up, and getting rid of Mr. Paterno and the head of the college (technically two different people) was absolutely the right thing to do.
Yep, the firing was correct. I’m surprised he didn’t resign immediately, but there was no way to let him stay the rest of the season or even one more game. I love Joe Pa, but he really screwed up on this one when he looked the other way after reporting the incident.
I was thinking the same thing as I read it.
On the matter at hand, I agree with the general idea that JoePa may or may not have any legal responsibilities beyond what he did, that remains to be seen, but I do think that he had a moral obligation to do more. Not just because of the nature of the allegation but because of his own status and his relationship with the accused. It sucks that someone who had such a reputation and legacy has to go out in the way that he did, but I think his firing was justified and appropriate.
Actually, I’m surprised it didn’t happen a few days earlier when his grand jury testimony made his lack of appropriate action apparent. I think that they waited until last night rather than doing so immediately says a lot about his legacy and probably how difficult of a decision it was for the board to make in that shadow, even knowing that firing him was the only appropriate action.
Cite? You want a cite? Fine - here’s your cite(Warning: PDF, and graphic).
At the very least, we know that Paterno testified, under oath, that in 2002, McQueary had told him that Sandusky was engaged in fondling or “doing something of a sexual nature” to a boy. Based on the language McQueary used in other parts of the testimony, this ‘doing something of a sexual nature’ sounds very strange - at some point we need to hear directly from McQueary what he actually told Paterno at the meeting the next day after he witnessed the rape.
But at the very least, Paterno know that a grown man was having very, very inappropriate conduct with a young boy. Are you really going to try and argue that there’s an ‘acceptable’ level of ‘conduct of a sexual nature’ a grown man can have with a 10yr old boy that would absolve Paterno of any further responsibility?
Paterno at least realized this was serious enough that it needed to be bumped ‘up’ as it were, and so he hold athletic director Tim Curley. Curley and Schultz (Senior VP for Finance & Business - apparently head of the campus police) decide that Sandusky’s key to the locker room is revoked, and he’s prohibited from bringing children on to the Penn State campus.
So - in other words, ‘we don’t care if you continue to rape kids, but just don’t do it here’.
The grand jury testimony is that Curry personally informed McQueary a week or so later that Sandusky had been banned from bringing kids to the campus.
McQueary at this time was just a lowly GA. Are you prepared to argue that the GA would have been kept in the loop…but Paterno wouldn’t have?
So - at a minimum, we know that at least as early as 2002, Paterno was aware that Sandusky was having interaction of a sexual nature with young boys. Paterno was obviously aware that the only outcome was ‘don’t let him bring kids on to the campus’. We know that Sandusky was allowed around the facilities - several former players have publically stated this week that Sandusky was a very common presence around the facilities because of his Second Mile foundation, which he had founded…to help young boys. (And if that doesn’t make you shudder…)
And get this: Penn State football players were *encouraged to take part in *Second Mile activities! You really think Paterno didn’t know that his football players were involved in an organization for young boys founded by the guy that had been witnessing having inappropriate sexual conduct with a young boy?
And all of this is even before we get to the various incidents in 1994-5 and 1998 - that in particular is very odd, because Sandusky went from being widely viewed as the next coach after Paterno to resigning suddenly in 1999.
But even if we ignore the stuff before 2002: To summarize: Paterno had more than enough information to have a pretty good idea that this pedophile was raping little kids, and the action he was fine with was ‘just don’t do it on campus’.
Paterno was wrong on so many levels I don’t even know where you could start defending him.
And he had an opportunity to go out humbly instead of arrogantly telling to the trustees to not waste any time on him.
And then to act shocked about his firing…he should have said, I understand and this is the right thing for PSU. He is clearly thinking more about himself and less about the university. If I was a PSU alum, I’d be extremely let down by his actions.
Not that it really matters, but there are three games left in the regular season and a bowl game in December or January. The last home game is Saturday, but they have two road games after that.
[QUOTE=Omar Little]
Cleaning house is very standard in these types of situations. It was very presumptuous of Joe Pa to believe he could dictate his [o]wn exit in this situation.
[/QUOTE]
He should have said at his first press conference: “This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. I cannot allow my beloved school and football program to be dragged down by this situation so for the good of the team and the institution I am immediately withdrawing from all my coaching duties and letting the President and Trustees decide my future.” Then some Trustees may have felt like they could get away with placing him on leave and making him lay low until he could “retire”.
But, no: “At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.” (emphasis supplied)
Not ***your ***call to make, coach. Those are the words of a man who didn’t get the memo. Who didn’t imagine that what’s easiest for your bosses in such a situation IS to dump you summarily.
There’s really nothing wrong with saying this… what was wrong was that it was followed by “so I’m retiring at the end of the season.” So he said he wanted to make it easy on them, and then proceeded to do exactly the opposite.
If he had said those exact same words and then the words “And so I am resigning at once” that would have been the right thing.
After reading the first 10 or so pages of the pdf DragonAsh posted (which everybody should read, if your only going off media summary your not getting the whole story) my gut is that Paterno did everything he should have at first. He reported it upwards. So far so good.
After that AD and company dropped the ball. “Don’t do it around here, we don’t want to be involved”. OK, high up administrators decide to let a pedophile go to avoid bad press and a scandal in the papers. Pitiful, but I can at least sort of see where they’re coming from.
But allowing him to constantly be on campus? Knowing he’s running a youth camp? Letting your players be involved with him? What in God’s name was Paterno thinking? How old, out of touch, morally numb, and aloof can you be? Even if you are obsessed with your team and school’s image, how do you let this scum within 1000 feet of your campus? How do you not tell him you’ll cut his throat if you see him around the players again? What kind of man doesn’t stand up in this case and at least do that?
On another note I am willing to forgive McQueary for not going straight to the police. After reading the description of what happened I pictured being in his shoes. Young guy trying to make a career, late at night, hear obvious sex in the showers, go to check it out and see an image that is scarred in your mind forever. He freaks out, knows they saw him and goes to his office. He’s probably thinking “What do I do? Call the police? That’s Sandusky for chrissakes! What about my job? The team? The university? Paterno? I’m going to call my father and see what he says.”
Which he does. Father understands the situation and says go to Paterno. He does the next morning and tells him what happens. If the AD and company do their job, suddenly McQueary and Paterno will be hailed for doing the right thing. I can’t blame McQueary for putting his head down and moving on. Being a whistleblower is not a fun job. Nothing to be proud of and something to regret the rest of your life, but I can at least see where he’s coming from.
Paterno? I think he’s known of Sandusky’s ways longer than anybody. What kind of man looks the other way? I don’t care about Paterno’s untouchable media image prior to this or his 40+ years of coaching. He’s worth nothing to me.
Are you kidding me?
He saw a grown man RAPING A LITTLE BOY - and he left the building. He’s a cowardly, pathetic, miserable excuse of a human being, and why he is still employed in any fashion at Penn State is beyond me. He was a 28yr old football player, and the only thing he could think of was…‘oh, I better call daddy’?
Did he try to stop the encounter? Did he try to remove the young boy from the situation? Did he make sure the kid was safe? Did he ever try to find out who the little boy was? To this day, as far as we know, NOT ONE PERSON - not McQueary, not Paterno, not McQueary’s dad, not Curry, not Schultz - even bothered to find out who the little boy was and if he was OK.
Chain of command my ass. If I see a little kid being RAPED, the chain of command is the chain I beat the rapist with until he knows who’s in command.
And then McQueary spent the next NINE YEARS seeing the sick fuck around campus, including with kids, and simply kept his mouth shut.
At the very least, I hope McQueary spends the rest of his life unable to sleep at night knowing he watched a little kid get raped and did nothing, and that god only knows how many kids were abused for the next 9 years because he didn’t have the guts to open his mouth.
No, not “so far so good”. When you have an eyewitness report stating that someone was committing a felony against a third party, your boss shouldn’t get a vote as to whether the police will get involved.
There are a lot of people in this whose actions are difficult to explain. Let’s not overlook the fact that people at Sandusky’s own charity were aware of what he was doing from pretty early on (1998, I think) and they didn’t do anything either. It’s tempting to say that McQueary and Paterno didn’t do anything because they were only thinking of their football program and that the PSU officials were only thinking about the reputation of the school, but I can’t help thinking that’s too simple. I think that the astonishing thing is that after reporting this - which was part of the right course of action but obviously incomplete - they just put it out of their minds and figured somebody else would take care of it. I think that’s much more of a deep individual failure to take responsibility as opposed to a sinister cover up, but it’s hard to know for sure. It’s amazing to think that you can see a co-worker rape a child (or hear about it from someone who witnessed that) and just go back to work with him the next day, or think that reporting it to a school official and making the guy retire really solves anything. And without the football motive at all, it’s almost impossible to understand how a charity that works with needy children can hear that someone on the board is acting inappropriately with children and not even move to keep him away from the kids.