# Should John Bolton be U.S. Ambassador to the UN? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971 "2005-03-11T04:30:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/41 "2005-04-06T14:46:16Z")
Confirmation hearing starts tomorrow! Gitcher last licks in! šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/42 "2005-04-06T14:53:15Z")
This one is circling the drain, folks. [Chafee](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/06/gop_senator_may_oppose_un_choice/) has all but said heā€™s going to vote No, and that combined with unanimous Dem opposition would kill the nomination. Frist is not in a strong position to coerce Chafee, not at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/43 "2005-04-07T05:12:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This one is circling the drain, folks. [Chafee](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/06/gop_senator_may_oppose_un_choice/) has all but said heā€™s going to vote No, and that combined with unanimous Dem opposition would kill the nomination. Frist is not in a strong position to coerce Chafee, not at the moment. If so, that would be the first really important vote in either house of Congress that Bush has yet lost. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/44 "2005-04-07T11:31:39Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Well if Bolton misbehaves in the UN it will sure provide much more stories and outrage material than if they stop his nomination now. So maybe the press wants a bit of scandal and UN ruckus ? Are you saying itā€™s up to the press to stop the nomination? šŸ˜• ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/45 "2005-04-07T13:13:42Z")
Is it permitted under the UN Charter for the delegates to refuse to seat a representative, because of his personal conduct? Congress can. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/46 "2005-04-07T18:34:35Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > Are you saying itā€™s up to the press to stop the nomination? šŸ˜• No Iā€™m saying the press might be quiet because Bolton rampaging in the UN would make for nice newspaper selling material. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/47 "2005-04-08T14:44:10Z")
Strike the Chafee story above - [they got to him.](http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/04/08/sen_chafee_plans_to_vote_for_presidents_un_ambassador_nominee/) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/48 "2005-04-09T08:52:45Z")
I donā€™t pay attn to the UN Ambassador, but this must be a big story if Google searches put John R. Bolton above [the real John Bolton.](http://www.johnbolton.com/) People really hate this guy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/49 "2005-04-09T08:57:40Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > But the business world has been using this approach set forth by Laurence Johnston Peter in the last century. It is called ā€œThe Peter Principalā€. While the promotion of hateful persons to positions of authority to get hem out someoneā€™s way might be _called_ ā€œThe Peter Principalā€ by those who neither have read Peterā€™s book nor know how to spell ā€œprincipleā€; the Peter Principle is, in fact, the promotion of someone who is quite good at a lower-level job to higher levels until he reaches his level of incompetence. Just so you use it right. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/50 "2005-04-11T14:20:07Z")
[Yahoo News on Boltonā€¦](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20050411/ts_washpost/a42539_2005apr10) Seems his nomination will be battled over unless some kind of political reason not to do so appearsā€¦ I certainly think his nomination to the UN sends all sorts of wrong signals to the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/51 "2005-04-12T00:34:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Bush has announced his nominee for the next U.S. Ambassador to the UN: John R. Bolton, who is currently Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. [http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/07/news/nations.html](http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/07/news/nations.html) > > He is also a long-time outspoken critic of the UN. From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_R.\_Bolton:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton:) > > Is this sound thinking? Is Bolton a good choice because of who he is? Or will he simply alienate the international community from the U.S. even further? Looks like heā€™ll be the sort whoā€™ll dish out constructive critism of the UN when it needs it most. Just because he has the opinion that the UN is the League Of Nations redux, doesnā€™t mean he should be barred from being posted there. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/52 "2005-04-12T02:02:00Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Just because he has the opinion that the UN is the League Of Nations redux, doesnā€™t mean he should be barred from being posted there. Yes, as a matter of fact, it does, if heā€™s so untactful as to spread that opinion around like his kidsā€™ class photos. John Boltonā€™s stated opinion is that the US needs to go in and show the UN how itā€™s done, that the UN needs to follow the US lead. Now, you may agree with this, and you may agree with him that the UN has made many wrong decisions and become largely ineffective ā€“ I may agree with some of those points myself ā€“ but thatā€™s not the issue. The point is, Bolton will get no results because heā€™s confrontational, undiplomatic, and chauvanistic. If you want someone to go in there and act like cock of the walk, great, heā€™s your man. But some of us here, including myself, want results. Itā€™s just more Bush administration ideology-first, America-only hubris thatā€™s going to come back around and bite us in the butt when the chickens come home to roost and we discover that, while we may be the biggest kid on the block at the moment, our day in the sun wonā€™t last if we lose all our friends. (Now put that wad of mixed metaphor in yer pipe and smoke it! šŸ˜‰ ) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/53 "2005-04-12T13:45:41Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Looks like heā€™ll be the sort whoā€™ll dish out constructive critism of the UN when it needs it most. Just because he has the opinion that the UN is the League Of Nations redux, doesnā€™t mean he should be barred from being posted there. If he thinks the UN is so uselessā€¦ why should he want to deal with the UN ? I think his ā€œconstructiveā€ criticism doesnā€™t work when its done on their face and so undiplomatically. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/54 "2005-04-12T19:32:15Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Just because he has the opinion that the UN is the League Of Nations redux, doesnā€™t mean he should be barred from being posted there. Too bad his boss [doesnā€™t feel the same way.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10969-2005Mar29.html) > [@](#): > > Three Denver residents yesterday charged that they were forcibly removed from one of President Bushā€™s town meetings on Social Security because they displayed a bumper sticker on their car condemning the administrationā€™s Middle East policies. Or are you simply asking that the UN should be more tolerant than the President of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/55 "2005-04-13T04:30:35Z")
Thats right Rjung, Bush = Devil on every issue. Ever thought his boss might not like him? > [@](#): > > If he thinks the UN is so uselessā€¦ why should he want to deal with the UN ? I think his ā€œconstructiveā€ criticism doesnā€™t work when its done on their face and so undiplomatically. Because sometimes instead of destroying something because you believe it not being valid is inheirently more stupid, however even though Bolton has expressed his views on how he hates the UN, shouldnā€™t stop him from doing his job effectively. How about waiting until he gets his job, then fucks up and then critizise him. > [@](#): > > John Boltonā€™s stated opinion is that the US needs to go in and show the UN how itā€™s done, that the UN needs to follow the US lead. I donā€™t see a problem with this, America is the worlds greatest and most powerful force for freedom in the world, why shouldnā€™t it tell the kleptocracies and authoritarian regimes to shove it? > [@](#): > > The point is, Bolton will get no results because heā€™s confrontational, undiplomatic, and chauvanistic. If you want someone to go in there and act like cock of the walk, great, heā€™s your man. But some of us here, including myself, want results How about waiting until heā€™s posted there and then critising him. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7294263/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7294263/) read. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/56 "2005-04-13T18:13:56Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Thats right Rjung, Bush = Devil on every issue. > > How about waiting until he gets his job, then fucks up and then critizise him. First comment is silly and childishā€¦ As for the secondā€¦ Bolton is going to represent the USA in the UNā€¦ its not a ā€œon the jobā€ learning possibility. If Bush is really sincere about dialogue and wanting the world to helpā€¦ then sending Bolton sends the wrong message. An important position like this is hardly one for something like ā€œwait until he gets his job, then fucks upā€. If anyone is capable of screwing things up badly just because of his pastā€¦ its Boltonā€¦ can the US afford this risk ? Its one thing to be fair to Boltonā€¦ its another to give US interests a fair chance of being well represented and defended in the UN. Most of us have criticized his pastā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/57 "2005-04-13T23:02:25Z")
> [@](#): > > First comment is silly and childishā€¦ Which was my intent > [@](#): > > As for the secondā€¦ Bolton is going to represent the USA in the UNā€¦ its not a ā€œon the jobā€ learning possibility. If Bush is really sincere about dialogue and wanting the world to helpā€¦ then sending Bolton sends the wrong message. An important position like this is hardly one for something like ā€œwait until he gets his job, then fucks upā€. If anyone is capable of screwing things up badly just because of his pastā€¦ its Boltonā€¦ can the US afford this risk ? Yep > [@](#): > > Its one thing to be fair to Boltonā€¦ its another to give US interests a fair chance of being well represented and defended in the UN. Most of us have criticized his pastā€¦ Plenty of people critisize everyones past, yet surpass their expectations when presented with something like this. I think we should give Bolton the same chance. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/58 "2005-04-14T01:07:12Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > even though Bolton has expressed his views on how he hates the UN, shouldnā€™t stop him from doing his job effectively. If you believe that, then you have no concept of what the job is. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > How about waiting until he gets his job, then fucks up and then critizise him. No one who ran a business with that philosophy would stay open very long. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > America is the worlds greatest and most powerful force for freedom in the world, why shouldnā€™t it tell the kleptocracies and authoritarian regimes to shove it? Oh, right, I forgot, freedom is on the march. :rolleyes: And for your information, not all members of the UN are kleptocracies and authoritarian regimes. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/59 "2005-04-14T01:10:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, right, I forgot, freedom is on the march. Thats right šŸ™‚ > [@](#): > > And for your information, not all members of the UN are kleptocracies and authoritarian regimes. No, but alot of them are, and one of the biggest is on the security council. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971/60 "2005-04-14T01:15:03Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Thats right šŸ™‚ Tell Pollyanna I said hi. The US may be feeling like the king of the hill, but itā€™s a damn big hill, and there are a lot of other kids out there. Weā€™re already spread thin logistically, and everyone knows it. We donā€™t have much muscle left to throw around to back up our big talk. China is poised to eat our lunch. Wake up and smell the cat food, brother. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-john-bolton-be-u-s-ambassador-to-the-un/293971.md?page=4)