# Should kids still read Tintin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 3, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406 "2016-06-03T18:02:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/61 "2016-06-06T13:25:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > …(Anybody else here a fan of Giles Cartoons, a British daily newspaper cartoon by Carl Giles, from WWII to the early 2000s? Sort of similar: the collections have made a little headway in the U.S.) Here’s a website about him, including a “random cartoon” option: [Giles Cartoons - a Celebration](http://www.gilescartoons.co.uk/cartoon.asp) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/62 "2016-06-06T14:44:57Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Concerning the Bowler Has anyone heard of Belgian artist Ernst Magritte? That guy in post #56 might have… ---
**Author:** ![FeAudrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FeAudrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FeAudrey)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/63 "2016-06-06T18:18:45Z")
You can watch five 2011-made episodes of _The Adventures of Tintin_ on MHz: [https://mhzchoice.vhx.tv/in-the-footsteps-of-tintin](https://mhzchoice.vhx.tv/in-the-footsteps-of-tintin) The link is to the streaming subscription service, but the episodes will be shown over-the-air from June 26th to July 24th: [http://www.mhznetworks.org/mhz-worldview/carriage](http://www.mhznetworks.org/mhz-worldview/carriage) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/64 "2016-06-06T18:54:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Compare that to nearly every issue of Asterix featuring a Numidian pirate with thick red lips and a speech impediment. > [@Trinopus](#): > > You have a valid point regarding his physical depiction, but everyone in the Asterix world stammers, “The Gau…the Gau…the Gau…” when they first see Asterix and Obelix on the charge. The Romans say the same thing. In the original French he has a definite habit of dropping the letter R from all his speech. I’m not sure if that’s an impediment or a depiction of poor education. [http://www.bdcentral.com/Iznogoud/clins\_pirates.jpg](http://www.bdcentral.com/Iznogoud/clins_pirates.jpg) [http://www.asterix.com/licences/editions-atlas/images/bataille2.gif](http://www.asterix.com/licences/editions-atlas/images/bataille2.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/65 "2016-06-06T18:56:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **That’s what I’m asking!** Is it a specifically British fashion, or do Belgian police dress that way also? (Or did they in that era?) [Wiki says:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomson_and_Thompson) _The detectives were in part based on Hergé’s father and uncle, identical twins who wore matching bowler hats while carrying matching walking sticks_ Not detectives, but Belgian men. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/66 "2016-06-06T21:00:37Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > In the original French he has a definite habit of dropping the letter R from all his speech. I’m not sure if that’s an impediment or a depiction of poor education. . . . > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Wiki says:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomson_and_Thompson) > > _The detectives were in part based on Hergé’s father and uncle, identical twins who wore matching bowler hats while carrying matching walking sticks_ . . . Cool, and cool again! Thank’ee! Facts trump speculation! ---
**Author:** ![Flocculencio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@Flocculencio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flocculencio)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/67 "2016-06-06T21:19:28Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > There’s an interesting, though short, [article](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/06/tintin/485501/) in _The Atlantic_, by an Indian writer, describing his love of the Tintin comics when young, and coming to terms with their depictions of race and imperialism. It got me wondering whether the Tintin comics will or should continue to be read in future generations. > > Without a doubt, the worst stuff is from the earliest comics. There’s one set in the Soviet Union which hasn’t been published (at least in the USA) since forever. Those who have read it generally agree it’s propagandistic and just plain bad. After that came _[Tintin in Congo](http://www.amazon.com/Tintin-Congo-Adventures-Hardcover-Author/dp/0785958304)_, which also wasn’t published in the series I read as a kid. The entire book is filled with [pictures](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x4QYv4eib58/Tbd-AADaTrI/AAAAAAAAFns/V2t4K-zTW5c/s1600/tintin_congo.jpg) of the native black population drawn in a sambo-esque way, with skin that is actually black, short and childlike bodies, huge lips, etc… The storytelling, in which Tintin exposes the blacks to all the marvels of western civilization and they fall down and worship him (literally, at one point), is not so good. Tintin also kills a lot of endangered species in hilarious ways. > > After that came _[Tintin in America](http://www.amazon.com/Tintin-America-Adventures-Herg%C3%A9/dp/0316358525)_, with an equally bad portrait of Native Americans, although it’s shorter, not filling the entire back. However, as Krishnadev Calamur points out, things got better as the series went on. In later books, characters from China and other non-European cultures are allowed to be depicted positively, as intelligent, brave, and resourceful. > > Overall, I would want Tintin to survive and still be widely read by children, accepting the relatively few bad parts as artifacts of a bygone error. The good parts of Tintin still remain. The comics tell kids that there’s interesting stuff out there: mysterious islands to be visited, ancient tombs to be explored, strange meteors plunging from outer space, and so forth. Then there’s the fact that while the earlier stories were pretty simplistic, the later ones have intricate plots. Tintin is a hero who fights with his brains, rather than just punching and shooting, and he also avoids intentionally killing people. Being ethnically Indian (Singaporean) myself that article really resonated with me. I definitely intend to introduce Tintin to my kid when he’s old enough. As a person who’s a minority in my own society, however, I think I’d actively point out to my son instances of prejudice where they do crop up. Herge definitely got a lot more enlightened after _The Blue Lotus_ but he was still a product of his time and unintentional casual prejudice does creep in, even where the later albums are concerned. _The Red Sea Sharks_ is a good example where the black Muslims en route to Mecca are depicted as naiive simpletons. Still a great story but like anything there’s a need to contextualise it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/68 "2016-06-07T14:39:52Z")
> [@Flocculencio](#): > > Being ethnically Indian (Singaporean) myself that article really resonated with me. I definitely intend to introduce Tintin to my kid when he’s old enough. As a person who’s a minority in my own society, however, I think I’d actively point out to my son instances of prejudice where they do crop up. Herge definitely got a lot more enlightened after _The Blue Lotus_ but he was still a product of his time and unintentional casual prejudice does creep in, even where the later albums are concerned. _The Red Sea Sharks_ is a good example where the black Muslims en route to Mecca are depicted as naiive simpletons. Still a great story but like anything there’s a need to contextualise it. I remembered seeing two different versions of that story, and looked it up to make sure I wasn’t imagining things: > [@](#): > > Hergé had been accused of exhibiting a racist attitude toward Africans in an earlier story, Tintin in the Congo, and potentially hoped to exonerate himself from such criticism by depicting Tintin and Haddock freeing African slaves in The Red Sea Sharks.[18] In preparing the latter story he had consulted a colleague who worked for an African-themed magazine, L’Afrique et le Monde (“Africa and the World”); they translated some of the passages that Hergé wished to include in the story into Yoruba.[19] However, in January 1962 an article in the magazine Jeune Afrique criticised Hergé for a racist depiction of Africans in the story,[20] an accusation that would be echoed in other publications.[21] These claims focused on the African characters’ simplistic use of pidgin language, which was similar to the speech patterns used in Tintin in the Congo.[22] > African: "You speak well, Effendi. Wicked Arab, very wicked. Poor black men not want to be slaves. Poor black men want to go to Mecca."Haddock: "Naturally, I realise that. But I repeat if you go there, you’ll be sold as slaves. Is that what you want?"African: “We not slaves, Effendi. We good Muslims. We want to go to Mecca.”[22] > Hergé biographer Benoît Peeters expressed the view that “for the most part these attacks were extremely unfair”.[22] Hergé was emotionally affected by the accusations, and made changes to the book for its 1967 reprint accordingly; here he changed the Africans’ speech patterns, giving them improved grammar.[23] However, he left Haddock speaking pidgin in response to the Africans.[22] > **[The Red Sea Sharks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Sea_Sharks)** > > The Red Sea Sharks (French: Coke en stock) is the nineteenth volume of The Adventures of Tintin, the comic series by Belgian cartoonist Hergé. The story was initially serialised weekly in Belgium's Tintin magazine from October 1956 to January 1958 before being published in a collected volume by Casterman in 1958. The narrative follows the young reporter Tintin, his dog Snowy, and his friend Captain Haddock as they travel to the fictional Middle Eastern kingdom of Khemed with the intention of ... Apparently, the Red Sea Sharks was his attempt to “make up for” Tintin in the Congo, by showing Tintin & Co. helping Africans rather than colonizing them, but he _still_ muffed it - by making his Africans speak pidgin (that’s just half the problem - they also are, basically, easily manipulated by the bad guys, until Tintin & Haddock save them: as you say, naïve simpletons). So he went back and altered the dialogue. I can’t remember the altered dialogue, but my impression was it made the Africans considerably more dignified. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/69 "2016-06-07T23:11:51Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Wiki says:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomson_and_Thompson) > > _The detectives were in part based on Hergé’s father and uncle, identical twins who wore matching bowler hats while carrying matching walking sticks_ > > Not detectives, but Belgian men. Note that another famous Belgian detective, with a somewhat better track record than the Tintin ones, is also [typically depicted as wearing a bowler hat](https://www.google.com/search?q=Hercule+Poirot+bowler+hat&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTkaf5gpfNAhUKFh4KHap6B04QsAQIHQ&biw=1312&bih=771). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/70 "2016-06-08T00:34:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Note that another famous Belgian detective, with a somewhat better track record than the Tintin ones, is also [typically depicted as wearing a bowler hat](https://www.google.com/search?q=Hercule+Poirot+bowler+hat&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTkaf5gpfNAhUKFh4KHap6B04QsAQIHQ&biw=1312&bih=771). [Psst…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19381314&postcount=34) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/71 "2016-06-08T00:37:33Z")
Yeah, but HP lived in England and bought his clothes from English tailors, and was created by a somewhat prejudiced English writer. It doesn’t necessarily reflect what real Belgian policemen were wearing at the time. ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/72 "2016-06-08T00:58:55Z")
Never read Tin Tin but with a title like that, I can see why. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/73 "2016-06-08T01:19:14Z")
> [@HeXen](#): > > Never read Tin Tin but with a title like that, I can see why. What’s that supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/74 "2016-06-08T01:41:56Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Yeah, but HP lived in England and bought his clothes from English tailors, and was created by a somewhat prejudiced English writer. It doesn’t necessarily reflect what real Belgian policemen were wearing at the time. How much of his look was defined by the stories, though? And how much by film and TV? Was the bowler hat part of Christie’s conception, or, like Holmes’ deerstalker, something that became iconic through adaptations? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/75 "2016-06-08T01:47:54Z")
Heh. I still have two copies of the bogus [Tintin in Thailand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_Thailand). Written by a Belgian author. Around the turn of the century, the old Voodoo Bar in the Nana Plaza red-light area was selling them. Then I saw a small item in the newspaper about police in Brussels having raided the distributor and confiscated all the copies there, so I hied on down to Nana and bought some up, giving one to another American upcountry. It’s pretty good. I wonder how much these would be worth now. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/76 "2016-06-08T03:53:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Note that another famous Belgian detective, with a somewhat better track record than the Tintin ones, is also [typically depicted as wearing a bowler hat](https://www.google.com/search?q=Hercule+Poirot+bowler+hat&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTkaf5gpfNAhUKFh4KHap6B04QsAQIHQ&biw=1312&bih=771). Actually Poirot isn’t wearing a bowler. I think the technical term is Homburg. Note that Poirot’s topper has a dimple at the top; Bowlers are wholly convex. Also, Poirot would never in a million years be caught wearing big heavy detective boots. He wears the most stylish of shoes. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/77 "2016-06-08T04:02:26Z")
My daughter is three and we read to her all the time. Honestly, I can’t imagine her ever reading the books. I never read them (I’m not quite thirty) and I can’t picture ever buying them. She will probably read Peter Pan, though. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/78 "2016-06-08T04:10:15Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I wonder how much these would be worth now. [Forty quid.](http://www.ebay.com/itm/TINTIN-in-THAILAND-funny-RARE-parody-62pa-A5-with-32-IN-COLOR-Numerotee-10-30-/272264108068?hash=item3f64349824:g:FvkAAOSwuhhXVA1O) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/79 "2016-06-08T15:26:23Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > My daughter is three and we read to her all the time. > > Honestly, I can’t imagine her ever reading the books. I never read them (I’m not quite thirty) and I can’t picture ever buying them. > > She will probably read Peter Pan, though. Also [racist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Made_the_Red_Man_Red%3F). Never mind the whole paedophile vibe thing [some people see](http://www.cracked.com/video_19016_why-peter-pan-propaganda-perverts.html). ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406/80 "2016-06-08T16:19:42Z")
“_My only international rival is Tintin !_” de Gaulle. > [@suranyi](#): > > Several biographies have indicated that WWII had a profound influence on him. Well, _yeah_. I’m kinda surprised more posters aren’t over-excited with the pseudo-accusation of his collaboration. Not that that old Charles wouldn’t have shrugged it off, even if true. Anyway, with regard to the OP, I think different nations have to diverge on issues: not everything needs to be universal; the trick is to cheerfully and respectfully accept each other’s choices. Tintin, and the rest, are fine for peoples that can hack it, but America in particular is a special, and sensitive case. Not only should these be hidden from their children, but also from American college students who shouldn’t be exposed to stuff that might distress them. Otherwise, they might, you know, _talk_ about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kids-still-read-tintin/756406.md?page=5)