# Should KISS be in the Rock Hall of Fame? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 26, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015 "2006-10-26T19:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/41 "2006-10-27T18:23:08Z")
Some may say “who are Starz and Angel?”- my point exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Logan\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/fbc32d/32.png) [@Logan\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logan_5)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/42 "2006-10-27T18:34:33Z")
I don’t understand how you could add Madonna to this. How is she rock and roll? She is pop. Is there a definition as to what is considered rock? How did MJ get in? Isn’t “Beat It” his only rock song? Seems like it should just be the Pop Music Hall of Fame. At least KISS is rock. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/43 "2006-10-27T18:37:33Z")
[QUOTE=Logan 5] I was never a Kiss fan, but I think they should be inducted. Just for cultural impact. [/QUOTE] Well if cultural impact is the only criteria then the Macarena is one of the greatest songs in history. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/44 "2006-10-27T18:47:32Z")
Logan: > [@](#): > > I don’t understand how you could add Madonna to this. How is she rock and roll? She is pop. Is there a definition as to what is considered rock? Good question. I don’t think there’s a real distinction, historically, between “pop” and “rock.” Most Beatles and Beach Boys songs would certainly be “pop” rather than “rock” if you were to divide the two the way you seem to be. Has “rock” come to mean only “hard rock”? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/45 "2006-10-27T18:50:01Z")
From the RRHOF web [site](http://www.rockhall.com/hof/process.asp): > [@](#): > > Performers > Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist’s contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll. Given that, I don’t see how you could _NOT_ have KISS in the HoF. Honestly, no offense to the man, but Clyde McPhatter is in and even his HoF bio [admits](http://www.rockhall.com/hof/inductee.asp?id=152): > [@](#): > > While his groundbreaking contributions as a soul/R&B vocalist remain undernoticed, So an “undernoticed” 1950’s era artist gets in, but the single _most_ noticed group of the late 70’s doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/46 "2006-10-27T18:54:04Z")
Damn it, I’m bad lately. “On and off _stage_”. Jeebus Cripes, I have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![UntouchedTakeaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d78d45/32.png) [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/47 "2006-10-27T19:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] KISS should probably be in the rock and roll hall of fame… …AFTER Warren Zevon is inducted. KISS probably deserves it at some point. Their music may be dated now, but I remember them in their heyday, and no one was bigger. And they stayed on top for a long time. And the music wasn’t that bad. In fact, by the standards of party-rock, it was excellent. Let’s list some of the songs: \*\*Detroit Rock City I Was Made for Loving You Shout it Out Loud Beth Rock and Roll All Nite Love Gun Lick it Up \*\* 9 Top-40 singles, four top 10 albums, a live album that went quadruple-platinum, and for about five years they were the biggest concert draw around. So yeah, they probably deserve their place in the RRHOF at some point. The real question is, who do they bump to get in? Because while they might deserve it, there are other bands that deserve it more. [/QUOTE] Yeah - what he said about Warren Zevon! 😛 VCNJ~ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/48 "2006-10-27T21:43:45Z")
If I get a vote, I vote “No.” All flash, no substance. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/49 "2006-10-27T21:48:22Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I’d say no. I’m amused enough by some of some of Kiss’ music, but I suspect their popularity is almost entirely due to lurid antics (on and off state), wild outfits, and the signature goofy makeup, and had they not been audacious enough to ply that gimmickry, no one today would have the slightest idea who they are. I should think for a band to qualify for entry into the Hall of Fame, not only should the band have gained some recognition, but their music should be able to stand on its own, especially from the image of the performer, as something of such quality that it at least deserved to be lauded or immitated regardless of any other factor. I just don’t think what Kiss produced musically ever rose to that level, or did so so rarely (like once or twice, tops) as to put them out of contention. They were a phenomenal act, but a thoroughly mediocre band. I just don’t see how that combination of attributes is Hall-worthy. [/QUOTE] I want to print this on a banner. ---
**Author:** ![Logan\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/fbc32d/32.png) [@Logan\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logan_5)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/50 "2006-10-27T22:08:59Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] Good question. I don’t think there’s a real distinction, historically, between “pop” and “rock.” Most Beatles and Beach Boys songs would certainly be “pop” rather than “rock” if you were to divide the two the way you seem to be. Has “rock” come to mean only “hard rock”? [/QUOTE] I don’t think “rock” should just mean “hard rock”, however when I think of “rock” I don’t think of Madonna, nor do I think of folk music, soul, jazz or dance/hiphop. I can appreciate how all these genres can influence each other and give rise to new forms/hybrids, but I can’t see the BeeGees, Miles Davis or Simon and Garfunkel as “rock”. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy any of these artists. In fact I like most of the artists that have been inducted, I just don’t consider some of them to be “rock”. I think of “pop” as a larger catagory that can include rock acts, disco, folk, what have you. Isn’t “pop” short for popular music? I personally consider the Beatles and the Beach Boys to be both rock and pop. I see King Crimson as “rock” but not “pop”. Take Billy Joel (please! nyuk, nyuk) for example. I don’t consider “Piano Man” a rock song, but I would say “Pressure” is and fittingly, so is “It’s Still Rock and Roll To Me”. Anyway, still think KISS should be in, they had cool lunch boxes! And yes **zoid** , that means Shaun Cassidy, The Bionic Woman and the Munsters should be in there as well. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/51 "2006-10-28T02:25:20Z")
[QUOTE=Veuve\_ClicquotNJ] Yeah - what he said about Warren Zevon! 😛 [/QUOTE] Forgive me my ignorance and any potential heresy, but isn’t Warren Zevon best known for a song that repeats the exact same piano riff over and over and over and over and over, with no variation whatsoever, whilst the vocals go “Ah-oooooooooo” repeatedly? I remember hearing that song for the first time, and thinking, “This is the genius I’ve heard so much about?” Anyway, when **Rush** can’t get elected to the R&R HoF, _nobody_ deserves to get in. I’ll second whoever suggested that kissing the critics’ collective ass is the primary criteria for entry. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/52 "2006-10-28T03:04:52Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] Forgive me my ignorance and any potential heresy, but isn’t Warren Zevon best known for a song that repeats the exact same piano riff over and over and over and over and over, with no variation whatsoever, whilst the vocals go “Ah-oooooooooo” repeatedly? I remember hearing that song for the first time, and thinking, “This is the genius I’ve heard so much about?” Anyway, when **Rush** can’t get elected to the R&R HoF, _nobody_ deserves to get in. I’ll second whoever suggested that kissing the critics’ collective ass is the primary criteria for entry. [/QUOTE] Warren Zevon is one of the best and most respected singer/songwriters of the rock era. He’s a legend among his peers, and has a fanatical following. The man was classically trained (taught by Igor Stravinsky, no less). He was the musical director for the Everly Brothers. As a solo artist, he was utterly unique, and hugely influential with other artists. His last album won several Grammy awards. One of the saddest things about his career is that to many, he’s only known as “The guy who did that werewolf song.” It’s probably the least sophisticated song he wrote - which is probably why it’s also his biggest hit. And it’s not even among his top 20 best songs. Randy Newman suffers from the same problem - one of the most gifted songwriters in the last 30 years, and yet many people remember him as “The guy who wrote that song about short people”. Or now, maybe as the guy who wrote the song in Toy Story. If all you know Zevon from is “Werewolves of London”, do youself a favor and get “Warren Zevon”, his eponymous album, or “Excitable Boy” (the one Werewolves on it), or maybe “Genius”, one of his greatest hits collections. Give the guy a chance, and you won’t be sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/53 "2006-10-28T04:08:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Warren Zevon is one of the best and most respected singer/songwriters of the rock era. He’s a legend among his peers, and has a fanatical following. The man was classically trained (taught by Igor Stravinsky, no less). He was the musical director for the Everly Brothers. As a solo artist, he was utterly unique, and hugely influential with other artists. His last album won several Grammy awards. \ If all you know Zevon from is “Werewolves of London”, do youself a favor and get “Warren Zevon”, his eponymous album, or “Excitable Boy” (the one Werewolves on it), or maybe “Genius”, one of his greatest hits collections. Give the guy a chance, and you won’t be sorry. [/QUOTE] Cool - ignorance fought. I’ll check out some of his other material. I read a glowing article about him shortly after he died, and having never heard of him, I wondered what the big deal was about. Hearing nothing but “Werewolf in London” over and over on classic rock radio didn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/54 "2006-10-28T04:40:39Z")
[QUOTE=duality72] They can be inducted right after The Monkees. [/QUOTE] And the Archies. Kiss was fun and even had some decent songs, but the Hall of Fame? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/55 "2006-10-28T04:50:23Z")
I don’t care that much, but… NO. Sales aren’t everything. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/56 "2006-10-28T11:38:21Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] Anyway, when **Rush** can’t get elected to the R&R HoF, _nobody_ deserves to get in. I’ll second whoever suggested that kissing the critics’ collective ass is the primary criteria for entry. [/QUOTE] Fucking word UP, man. Scratch one hell of a lot of critical darling bands (from metal to alt to pop) and you find performers who started out wanting to play the chords to Tom Sawyer. Hell, Smashing Pumpkins used to quote Limelight on stage. Mind you, I suspect Lee, Lifeson and Peart don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/57 "2006-10-28T12:03:22Z")
Really, Rush isn’t in there? Then it IS a popularity contest, really, with a decent dose of racial politics, to make sure that the early “rock” groups get in. On the other hand, that attitude didn’t seem to help Buck O’Neil, who needs to be in the MLB HOF on the basis of his _retirement_ alone. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/58 "2006-10-28T12:30:53Z")
Look at the way the whole thing works. It’s a joke. It;s not like the baseball HOF. The same critices just nbominate the same bands until thet get in. In 2006 _Black Sabbath_ made it on their 8th try, \*Lynyrd Skynyrd \* on their 7th, the _Sex Pistols \* on their 5th. Other nominees included 5th timers the Stooges, J.Geils Band, Chic, \* Cat Stevens_, and the \*Sir Douglas Quintet \*. Still never nominated are _Rush_, _Van Halen_, _Yes_, _Genesis_, _ELO_, _Alice Cooper_, _Duran Duran_. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/59 "2006-10-28T12:34:07Z")
Look at the way the whole thing works. It’s a joke. It’s not like the baseball HOF. The same critics just nominate the same bands until they get in. In 2006 _Black Sabbath_ made it on their 8th try, \*Lynyrd Skynyrd \* on their 7th, the _Sex Pistols \* on their 5th. Other nominees included 5th timers the Stooges, J.Geils Band, Chic, \* Cat Stevens_, and the \*Sir Douglas Quintet \*. Still never nominated are _Rush_, _Van Halen_, _Yes_, _Genesis_, _ELO_, _Alice Cooper_, _Duran Duran_. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015/60 "2006-10-28T15:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] Still never nominated are _Rush_, _Van Halen_, _Yes_, _Genesis_, _ELO_, _Alice Cooper_, _Duran Duran_. [/QUOTE] Van Halen has never been nominated? I always figured they were a shoe-in for launching a new genre. I knew about the disdain for Rush and figured it was the same for Yes and Genesis, but I figured ELO would be in there too. They seem like a critics-style band. Maybe the 1000 voters are older than I thought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-kiss-be-in-the-rock-hall-of-fame/378015.md?page=4)