# Should Leslie Van Houten (Manson Family) Be Paroled? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824 "2006-06-08T00:44:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/181 "2010-07-08T05:39:47Z")
No, she should never be paroled. She should have been put to death. I have seen her in interviews and she comes across as a nice lady. She is very intellegent and articulate. I don’t believe that she would ever harm anyone ever again. I almost…almost feel sorry that such an articulate, intellegent woman has to be locked in a cage and have her life thrown down the toilet. But she put her own ass there. But, she did murder two people. By invading their home, tying them up and stabbing them to death. For no reason except for the hell of it. It was brutal and made absolutely no sense. A painful, bloody, terrorizing death. I think it is wrong that they get parole hearings for crimes that other people get Life without Parole (LWOP) or the death penalty for. Lyle and Erik Menendez killed their parents and got LWOP. Scott Peterson killed his wife and baby and got the death penalty. Leslie Van Houten killed two people directly and indirectly through conspiracy killed several others and she has a faint hope of walking out of prison. That’s wrong. I do enjoy Charlie Manson’s parole hearings however. They’re hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/182 "2010-07-08T07:02:29Z")
Maybe thats her punishment; they keep letting her get her hopes up. Still, considering the crimes, thats not enough of a punishment. Me, I would choose death instead of life in prison. Did any of the LaBianca relatives testify at the parole hearing? ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/183 "2010-07-08T07:04:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > I do enjoy Charlie Manson’s parole hearings however. They’re hilarious. No, they’re sad. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/184 "2010-07-08T07:13:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > I do enjoy Charlie Manson’s parole hearings however. They’re hilarious. There’s talk of getting Betty White, Jimmy Kimmel and Chris Rock to do his next one and making it a roast to raise money via pay per view for the penal system. (Okay, maybe not… but it wouldn’t be a bad idea…) ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/185 "2010-07-08T07:24:08Z")
I actually thought they should’ve gotten diminished capacity, all except Manson. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/186 "2010-07-08T08:13:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > PS- I’ll admit I’ve changed my views since this thread was started. I was just about to quote the previous post unitl I got to the end and then saw this. I was going to say that this thread shows me a side of **Sampiro** I never expected to see. And it is interesting to see someone change over 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/187 "2010-07-08T08:18:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Sociopaths can’t be redeemed. Forgiveness is neither here nor there. I don’t see how anyone but her victims have a right to forgive her anyway. Has there been a specific diagnosis by a mental health professional you are referring to? Are there peer reviewed papers that represent the state of the art that make the claim you are making? Cites please. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/188 "2010-07-08T08:29:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I did a lot of LSD. I never butchered anybody. You sound disappointed! ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/189 "2010-07-08T08:34:28Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > While I am not one to usually defend the Mormon (LDS) religion, I think you mean “Thanks a majority of California voters”… No, he was right the first time. And he said it well. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/190 "2010-07-08T08:40:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just for the record… Prop 8 didn’t outlaw all gay unions. Anyone married between when the courts allowed SSM and when Prop 8 passed is still married. We also have a very strong Domestic Partnership law. Yeah, I know we’re not perfect, but if you’re gay, there are a lot worse places to live in the US than CA. hate make this a hijack, but as an activist in the Prop 8 battle, I was jsut clearing up an old stack of papers tonight and I came across some emails from activists on the other side, addressed to elected officials who are LDS and have created and passed pro-Prop 8 resolutions. I acquired these under the CA Public Records Act. There is no doubt the intent is to remove those rights as well, and they accuse me of the shameful act of writing and speaking publicly that everyone should have the same rights. And speaking of psychopaths, the guy who wrote those emails later attacked me during a public meeting while I spoke of the value of equal rights for everyone. Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/191 "2010-07-08T08:46:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’ve got to be kidding me. You really think it takes a specialist to know that randomly breaking into houses and carving people up like turkeys is a psychopathic thing to do? You’re being ridiculous. OK\< gonna pipe up again here. My gf is a licensed psychologist in CA with the express responsibility of making these sorts of diagnoses among people caught up in the justice system. While Manson is not at her facility, he is “in the neighborhood”, and some other psychologists in our social circle are at the same facility as him. Of course, due to privacy and ethics consideration, they can’t answer specific or even general questions about who they treat - and I have certainly been present when people ask about Manson when they hear where said doctors work. It is almost automatic, you can set your watch by how long it will take. But I can say that these doctors most certainly do have training above and beyond, by far, what even an educated layman such as us has. It does your argument no good at all to suggest otherwise. In fact, it drags your position, which could be better argued, down to the level of wishful thinking at best. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/192 "2010-07-08T08:50:03Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > There are obviously many, many Californians who don’t want legalized gay marriage, and I know that there is not a huge number (it’s gotta be under 10% at the very most) of Mormons in California. Right, yet the LDS essentially financed the CA campaign of hate from outside the state. Hate or not, they are advocating tyranny of the majority, and there are few things less “American” than that. You’d think they, of all groups, would understand that. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/193 "2010-07-08T08:52:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Psychopaths are not mentally ill and are not psychotic. They just lack empathy and conscience. Maybe by some definition of “mentally ill” that is known only to you. But to the rest of us, for whom DSM-IV sets the standards for diagnoses and so defines the illnesses, you will find what you say isn’t there - called “Sociopathy” IIRC (as I am not the psychologist in the household) ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/194 "2010-07-08T09:02:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You know who put a pillow case over Rosemary LaBianca’s head and held her down while Patricia Krenwinkel stabbed her? Leslie Van Houten. Didn’t you say upthread that since the Mansons were the only witnesses, there is no way to know who did what, and so they are all equally culpable? So what is the purpose of this post? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/195 "2010-07-08T09:55:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Their actions are self-defining. Having said that, I believe every court ordered psych evaluation has established them to be psychpaths – not that any expertise is required to know that. Actually no - > [@](#): > > The parole board suggested that Van Houten needed more therapy “to further understand the enormity of her crime.” However, Van Houten’s psychiatric evaluations “clearly indicate that she is not a present danger to society and should be found suitable for parole.” it would seem that the shrink hired by the state of California says she isn’t actually a psychopath. [I got this off crime library] To be perfectly honest, I have read pretty much the entire crime library site, and to be perfectly honest there are other killers on there that were just as barbaric so the Manson Family killings are not particularly outstanding. The only real difference is the publicity around it. Brainwashing, drugs and famous victims aside, gang banger killers get paroles all the time [subjectively speaking, that is] Is a drive by ‘accidental’ shooting of a child any less barbaric? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/196 "2010-07-08T14:27:05Z")
PLEASE! How grizzly does a crime have to be before “life in prison” means “life in prison.” And let’s not forget, we’re talking two separate acts here. One grizzly crime, maybe parole. But twice? Serial and spree killers do not belong in society. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/197 "2010-07-08T14:36:52Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > PLEASE! How grizzly does a crime have to be before “life in prison” means “life in prison.” > > And let’s not forget, we’re talking two separate acts here. One grizzly crime, maybe parole. But twice? Serial and spree killers do not belong in society. While you are raging about spending California’s money from afar, perhaps you will take note of actual facts and realize that LVH was never accused of serial or “spree” killing, let alone convicted of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/198 "2010-07-08T14:48:06Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > PLEASE! How grizzly does a crime have to be before “life in prison” means “life in prison.” > > And let’s not forget, we’re talking two separate acts here. One grizzly crime, maybe parole. But twice? Serial and spree killers do not belong in society. Yeah! And don’t even GET me started on how disproportionate the sentences are when a white man is killed by a BLACK bear! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/199 "2010-07-08T15:29:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > \As for doing less than Van Houten did, it’s true that he did not do any of the murders or attacks himself; he was, IIRC, convicted of conspiracy to commit murder. Convicting him was a masterpiece on Bugliosi’s because it was not easy. It was even more of a masterpiece than you recall. Manson was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder and seven counts of first degree murder, murders at which he was not present. ---
**Author:** ![SayWhat\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@SayWhat\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayWhat_1)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/200 "2010-07-08T17:11:46Z")
This is a woman in her 60’s who is screwed for life. I believe she lives with the nightmare daily. If you watch the parole board you will realize she will never be paroled. What a sorry excuse for denying parole. Why can’t any government official tell the truth anymore? Even if she were granted parole, Arnold Schwarzenegger would certainly shoot it down after the fact. It’s political, no politician today would want the release of a Manson family member on his record. Personally, I believe she is sincerely sorry for the nightmare that happened. I do not think she would be a threat to anyone. I do not think she has any major psychiatric disorder. Perhaps she has a personality disorder and problems dealing with men. The bottom line, she is screwed for life. short of the President, or Arnold Schwarzenegger stepping in, she should make peace with herself, consider herself to be a nun living is an isolated convent somewhere, settle in, and prepare her soul for her next life. Personally, I wish she would write and find someone to publish. I believe she could offer a unique perspective to those young people who have problems. I know she is active in prison…I wish we could hear from her more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824.md?page=11)