# Should Leslie Van Houten (Manson Family) Be Paroled? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824 "2006-06-08T00:44:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/101 "2010-07-07T16:10:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So all murderers where the victim’s family and loved ones have moved on and forgiven should be let out immediately, even if they haven’t served their whole sentence? Is it o.k. to let out a murderer if no family or loved ones exist? No, I’m saying that “forgiveness” is a private concern for the victims and is absolutely no consequence to the state. It has no bearing on sentencing or parole. I’m saying it’s none of the state’s business and is irrelevant to the state’s responsibilities. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/102 "2010-07-07T16:11:23Z")
But they were actually sentenced to death. One shouldn’t get out for that, its different from being sentenced for 15 to life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/103 "2010-07-07T16:14:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, I’m saying that “forgiveness” is a private concern for the victims and is absolutely no consequence to the state. It has no bearing on sentencing or parole. I’m saying it’s none of the state’s business and is irrelevant to the state’s responsibilities. And right now it is the state’s responsibility to grant parole in a fair and equal manner. If parole is legal in this instance, then whether the victim is famous or a complete unknown should not matter. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/104 "2010-07-07T16:28:37Z")
I don’t think she should have ever been granted the possibility of parole in the first place, but Charlie has parole hearings too. Should his possible parole ever be taken seriously? I would say that they should be routinely denied parole just because they are still a threat to society. I don’t see anything unfair about that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/105 "2010-07-07T16:34:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think she should have ever been granted the possibility of parole in the first place, but Charlie has parole hearings too. Should his possible parole ever be taken seriously? > > I would say that they should be routinely denied parole just because they are still a threat to society. I don’t see anything unfair about that. What, then, is the purpose of parole? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/106 "2010-07-07T16:37:55Z")
She got rejected. I guess we can sleep easier now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/107 "2010-07-07T16:45:26Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > She got rejected. I guess we can sleep easier now. Yup, the one who tried to rehabilitate herself, the one who wouldn’t have been able to take six steps without someone from the press dogging her is still in prison, while others you know nothing about are getting paroled every day. The one you only know and care about because her name is in the headlines is still in prison. Sleep easy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/108 "2010-07-07T16:45:36Z")
I guess it’s to give people a chance who actually have the potential to change and who aren’t still ongoing threats to society. I don’t think the Manson killers are capable of either. I also think it’s silly to suggest that they’re being treated unfairly because they’re “famous.” They aren’t Lindsay Lohan. They’re not famous people who commited crimes. They’re “famous” BECAUSE of their crimes. In particular they are famous because of the extraordinary depravity and brutality of their crimes and because their victims were chosen so randomly. That latter point is part of what makes them so dangerous. They did not commit crimes of passion, but completely cold blooded crimes against people they didn’t know. That makes them qualitatively different kinds of killers than a guy who shoots his wife after catching her in bed with the pool boy. Their crimes were unemotional and calculated and utterly indifferent. That’s not the kind of thing that can be treated or cured or repented. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/109 "2010-07-07T16:49:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I guess it’s to give people a chance who actually have the potential to change and who aren’t still ongoing threats to society. I don’t think the Manson killers are capable of either. I also think it’s silly to suggest that they’re being treated unfairly because they’re “famous.” They aren’t Lindsay Lohan. They’re not famous people who commited crimes. They’re “famous” BECAUSE of their crimes. In particular they are famous because of the extraordinary depravity and brutality of their crimes and because their victims were chosen so randomly. That latter point is part of what makes them so dangerous. They did not commit crimes of passion, but completely cold blooded crimes against people they didn’t know. That makes them qualitatively different kinds of killers than a guy who shoots his wife after catching her in bed with the pool boy. Their crimes were unemotional and calculated and utterly indifferent. That’s not the kind of thing that can be treated or cured or repented. If it weren’t for the fame(or infamy), this thread wouldn’t be in Great Debates, and you wouldn’t be posting here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/110 "2010-07-07T16:51:41Z")
If it wasn’t for their crimes, they wouldn’t be infamous. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/111 "2010-07-07T16:57:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If it wasn’t for their crimes, they wouldn’t be infamous. They aren’t famous because of the nature of their crimes, because greater crimes have been committed that will never be mentioned in this forum. They are famous because of the nature of their _victims_-Hollywood swingers and trendsetters. The books, the movies, the interviews, the constant updating/psychoanalysis and such wouldn’t exist if it were a family of unknowns that had been murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/112 "2010-07-07T16:57:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If it wasn’t for their crimes, they wouldn’t be infamous. Would anybody know their names today had Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring (both famous at the time) not been among their victims? There are crime scenes so bloody and depraved they put these to shame- chain saws and sexual torture and whole families killed and the like- but at least before the 24/7 news they didn’t make nationwide news. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think she should have ever been granted the possibility of parole in the first place, Neither do I, but she was. I don’t think pot should be illegal but it is, and I comply with it. Your opinion of the law doesn’t mean you or anyone else is exempted from it, and since the law was changed she should be given the same parole hearing as anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/113 "2010-07-07T17:00:49Z")
I don’t want people who commit those crimes to be paroled either. I’m having a hard time seeing the Manson killers as victims here. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/114 "2010-07-07T17:02:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I guess it’s to give people a chance who actually have the potential to change and who aren’t still ongoing threats to society. I don’t think the Manson killers are capable of either. I also think it’s silly to suggest that they’re being treated unfairly because they’re “famous.” They aren’t Lindsay Lohan. They’re not famous people who commited crimes. They’re “famous” BECAUSE of their crimes. In particular they are famous because of the extraordinary depravity and brutality of their crimes and because their victims were chosen so randomly. That latter point is part of what makes them so dangerous. They did not commit crimes of passion, but completely cold blooded crimes against people they didn’t know. That makes them qualitatively different kinds of killers than a guy who shoots his wife after catching her in bed with the pool boy. Their crimes were unemotional and calculated and utterly indifferent. That’s not the kind of thing that can be treated or cured or repented. Are you suggeting that if Van Houten were released then the Manson Family will have reconvened and that “they” will resume their killing spree? There is no “they” anymore. She’s on her own as an individual. And it ain’t the 60s anymore, either. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/115 "2010-07-07T17:02:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t want people who commit those crimes to be paroled either. Where is your thread bemoaning their release, then? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing the Manson killers as victims here. Who here has called them victims? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/116 "2010-07-07T17:20:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They aren’t famous because of the nature of their crimes, because greater crimes have been committed that will never be mentioned in this forum. They are famous because of the nature of their _victims_-Hollywood swingers and trendsetters. The books, the movies, the interviews, the constant updating/psychoanalysis and such wouldn’t exist if it were a family of unknowns that had been murdered. They’re not famous, they’re infamous, they’re notorious. Doesn’t anybody around here understand the difference? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/117 "2010-07-07T17:24:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My personal opinion on paroling murderers is this: they should stay in prison until the person they murdered stops being dead. Should rapists stay in prison until the person they raped hasn’t been raped any more? Should the person who stole irreplaceable items from my home and sold them so that they are unrecoverable stay in prison until I get my stuff back? I’m just curious where the logical end of that particular train of thought might be. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/118 "2010-07-07T17:25:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who here has called them victims? A lot of folks here are talking about how it’s not fair to deny her parole because lesser known offenders are getting paroled. That would make her the victim of an injustice–if you agree that it’s unfair, which I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/119 "2010-07-07T18:06:36Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Should rapists stay in prison until the person they raped hasn’t been raped any more? Should the person who stole irreplaceable items from my home and sold them so that they are unrecoverable stay in prison until I get my stuff back? > > I’m just curious where the logical end of that particular train of thought might be. I see a pretty clear distinction between taking somebody’s life and taking their stereo. Rape, I’ll admit, is a difficult one. It’s a horrible violent crime against a person. But a rape victim, unlike a murder victim, has a chance for recovery. So I’d be willing to concede the chance for parole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824/120 "2010-07-07T18:32:52Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > They’re not famous, they’re infamous, they’re notorious. Doesn’t anybody around here understand the difference? Do _you_ understand that they are in the news because of _who_ they killed, not because of _how_ they killed? That is where the “famous” part of this equation comes from. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-leslie-van-houten-manson-family-be-paroled/359824.md?page=7)