# Should longtime NPR analyst Juan Williams have been fired for comments he made on O'Reilly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887 "2010-10-21T14:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/241 "2010-10-22T16:00:52Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > Oh, and Nina Totenberg’s quote? > > I’m not going to argue too hard, cuz I think it was over the top for a news commentator, but if you actually bother reading for comprehension she isn’t wishing AIDS on him. So saying someone should get AIDS isn’t the same as wishing they get AIDS. Got it. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Expressing fear that every person he thinks is a Muslim is a terrorist shows blatant prejudice against Muslims. It would, but since he said exactly the opposite, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Not certain Muslims, all of them. This statement, fortunately, is a straightforward misrepresentation. > [@](#): > > Williams also warned O’Reilly against blaming all Muslims for “extremists,” saying Christians shouldn’t be blamed for Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. > [@](#): > > Oh? I’m falsifying quotes now? Yes, as a matter of fact, you are, both within quote tags and outside it. Which is fine, since IANAMod. If you have to descend to those depths to make an argument, I rest content. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/242 "2010-10-22T16:01:54Z")
NPR’s biases are largely up for debate. Fox News’ aren’t really. Juan Williams has been appearing on Fox News for quite some time. Fox News isn’t exactly a source of journalistic excellence and in-depth objective reporting. NPR is sensitive about it’s reputation about being a liberal media outlet and sees itself as one of the lone bastions of independent through left in the media. Fox news and Juan Williams have been using each other and NPR and have been making money by reinforcing the “NPR leans left” perception. Why isn’t it OK for NPR to be pissed off about this and want to take corrective action? Juan Williams’ association with NPR is what got him air time on Fox News in the first place. NPR’s choices were 1) Allow him to continue with his appearances on fox and npr with the credibility hit he’s taken (bringing that credibility hit by association to NPR) or 2) Get rid of the credibility problem by firing him. They were damned either way, and instead of doing the politically sensitive thing and keeping him on to keep the right from howling, they did the professionally responsible thing in getting rid of him for credibility reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/243 "2010-10-22T16:02:35Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I am glad that when a load of white Christian men were bombing my country (the UK) i didn’t freak out whenever I saw a white christian man. That would have been very tiring and frankly I’d have ended up in some sort of asylum. How about if it was done in the name of Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/244 "2010-10-22T16:09:16Z")
So lets see. Juan gets on an airplane in New York, flies to, say, Biloxi, then takes a Greyhound to East Bumfuck, Mississippi. He gets off then starts walking from downtown out to the 'burbs, leaving Greater Metropolitan East Bumfuck, out to the rural areas, to find a “known Klan area”? And _then_ he gets nervous? The Klan is deader than DOS, \*\*yorick. \*\* I’ve had blood kin who were members, but they are dead. Of old age. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/245 "2010-10-22T16:10:21Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > But it was really dumb. Juan Williams didn’t say “Many Americans are afraid of people in Muslim garb.” That’s a simple fact, and no one would have been bothered by it. He said “I’m afraid of people in muslim garb.” No, he didn’t. He said that when he sees airline passengers in traditional Muslim garb, he gets nervous. Not afraid – just nervous. And he wasn’t talking about people in Muslim attire in general – just when they’re on an airplane. There’s enough confusion on this matter. It doesn’t do us any good to exaggerate the nature of his supposedly offensive remark. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/246 "2010-10-22T16:12:19Z")
NPR is such an example. NPR does have a liberal bias and a political agenda, and no one can show the slightest evidence that it does not. Media Matters, itself a left leaning entity, tried to wihitewash that NPR leans more right than left in its think tank sources. Left wingers just think that anything that is conservative must be whack. Objectivity is an affront to them. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/247 "2010-10-22T16:13:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So lets see. Juan gets on an airplane in New York, flies to, say, Biloxi, then takes a Greyhound to East Bumfuck, Mississippi. He gets off then starts walking from downtown out to the 'burbs, leaving Greater Metropolitan East Bumfuck, out to the rural areas, to find a “known Klan area”? And _then_ he gets nervous? > > The Klan is deader than DOS, \*\*yorick. \*\* I’ve had blood kin who were members, but they are dead. Of old age. Certainly you can understand my point. I know you like to just type useless tripe instead of getting involved in debates but, certainly, even you understand what I was saying. Oh, and do you really believe the Klan is dead? LOL ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/248 "2010-10-22T16:23:32Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > NPR is such an example. NPR does have a liberal bias and a political agenda, and no one can show the slightest evidence that it does not. Media Matters, itself a left leaning entity, tried to wihitewash that NPR leans more right than left in its think tank sources. Left wingers just think that anything that is conservative must be whack. Objectivity is an affront to them. This isn’t an argument - it’s an assertion without backup. There are 2 “instances” of bias that have been brought up so far, 1 of which is 15 years old. Why don’t you demonstrate the pervasive liberal bias by going through today’s stories and pointing out ways in which they are biased? Because clearly, if the bias is so deliberate, it would be fairly simple to find within about a half hour of looking, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/249 "2010-10-22T16:24:44Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If he said I fear when black people get on a plane ,would that have been racist? Why if he says it is people who look like muslims ,is it suddenly not bigotry? Would he quake in fear if Muhammed Ali got on a plane? > Like I said, I see people dressed in muslim garb all the time, nearly everywhere i go. I don’t even notice. I go to political functions and there are burkhas all over. I have neighbors who dress in burkhas. It tells you nothing about what kind of person they are or anything about their politics. > It is bigotry. You see people dressed in muslim garb all the time, but don’t even notice? Does not compute. You noticed them, or you can’t report that you saw them. Anyway, you make my point for me. I tried to convey a complex idea on a sensitive issue by producing a list of related points to develop a narrative. You have misunderstood the point I tried to make. Or I have misunderstood your point. That’s why we don’t try to earn a living addressing sensitive issues on national media, but prefer to make recreational posts on anonymous message boards. Juan Williams got sacked for professional incompetence, not his (possible) bigotry\*. Sandwich The other good thing about the internet is that I can join in these discussions without knowing who Juan Williams is, what NPR is, or who/what O’Reilly is. Carry on! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/250 "2010-10-22T16:25:53Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I’m having a Poe’s law problem with this post. It is a joke, right? What’s Poe’s law? Of course it was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/251 "2010-10-22T16:31:40Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Try your best to think just a little. Here…I’ll help you. First, Williams didn’t call they ragheads. Second, a redneck on a plane is not perceived as a threat by anybody…not even a black person. > > If Williams said he was nervous walking at night in known Klan areas when he happened upon a group of southern white males on a dark street in a rural area then he would have a point. I certainly wouldn’t find it racist or offensive in the least. > > Nice try though. Called an analogy and was not meant to be perfect. It was meant to illustrate a point and I think it does that well enough. But lets go with Williams’ “reasonable” fear of Muslims on a plane. > [@](#): > > In a powerful paper for the libertarian American think-tank the Cato Institute, Professor John Mueller provides strong support for the Parris argument. He points out that “in almost all years, the total number of people worldwide who die at the hands of international terrorists anywhere in the world is not much more than the number who drown in bathtubs in the United States”. He adds that even including the September 11 attacks, the number of Americans killed by terrorists since records on this were kept is about the same as those killed by lightning, accident-causing deer or severe allergic reaction to peanuts. > > To this evidence he adds the research carried out at the University of Michigan that suggests that an American’s chance of being killed in one non-stop airline flight is about one in 13 million. Apparently there “would have to be one set of September 11 crashes a month for the risks to balance out” between travelling by plane and by car. > > SOURCE: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel\_finkelstein/article616813.ece](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article616813.ece) ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/252 "2010-10-22T16:32:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > ..I have neighbors who dress in burkhas. It tells you nothing about what kind of person they are or anything about their politics… I think it tells you a lot about them, though their other behaviour will tell you more. So, how often do these burkha wearing women have a chat with their male neighbours and maybe come over for coffee and a doughnut? Are they good neighbours, showing an interest and socialising and supporting the Christians and atheists they live among? Or do they stay aloof from the rest of the community? Do they consider themselves and you to be part of the same community? Do you know them well enough to have asked? Enquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/253 "2010-10-22T16:36:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Called an analogy and was not meant to be perfect. It was meant to illustrate a point and I think it does that well enough. No, it was a bait and switch in order to make it appear that what Williams said was racist. Your statement was not even close to an analogy. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But lets go with Williams’ “reasonable” fear of Muslims on a plane. Do you have any idea of how terrorism works? How the human brain works? Hard numbers mean nothing. It’s not logic…I don’t think anyone is arguing that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/254 "2010-10-22T16:44:20Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > No, it was a bait and switch in order to make it appear that what Williams said was racist. Your statement was not even close to an analogy. He was expressing a fear of a particular group which he could identify by how they dress. My example was him expressing a fear about a particular group which he could identify by how they dress. Are you going to make me post the definition of an analogy? > [@](#): > > Do you have any idea of how terrorism works? How the human brain works? Hard numbers mean nothing. It’s not logic…I don’t think anyone is arguing that it is. Yeah. So? Are you arguing we should bow to our base fears regardless of their truth? He is in about as much danger from the redneck on the plane as he is from a Muslim on a plane. I suppose the redneck is slightly less dangerous to him _on a plane_ but as I just posted the chances are vanishingly small a Muslim will get him either (1 in 13 million from dying by _any_ terrorist act per plane flight). ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/255 "2010-10-22T16:51:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So saying someone should get AIDS isn’t the same as wishing they get AIDS. Got it. :rolleyes: She didn’t say he should get it. Try reading the quote rather than just repeating what some blog site said. > [@](#): > > It would, but since he said exactly the opposite, it doesn’t. How about we look at the actually I’m talking instead of the one you cherry picked > [@](#): > > But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous. So, now, go ahead and point where he says here that he gets nervous about ‘extremist Muslims’. I’ll give you a hint: he doesn’t. Muslims make him nervous, period. The bit you quoted is just like him saying: > [@](#): > > Look, Bill, I’m not a bigot You know as soon as you hear that, you’re gonna hear something bigoted. And he didn’t disappoint. Saying that you shouldn’t blame all Muslims for 911 is just weak backpedaling or asscovering after you’ve said all Muslims on a plane make you nervous. > [@](#): > > This statement, fortunately, is a straightforward misrepresentation. Nope, it ain’t, and repeating this over and over ain’t gonna make it more true. You wanna show it’s misrepresentation? How about addressing the quote I actually quoted, instead of the one you cherry picked. If he meant extremist Muslims only, he would have said it at the time, and not just when he wants to cover his ass. > [@](#): > > Yes, as a matter of fact, you are, both within quote tags and outside it. So this is all you have to argue with? It’s ok man, next time I’ll say in huge pink blinking letters that the text in the quote tags is altered, so even you can see it. You wanna call me a liar, prove it. Otherwise, you’re just making shit up. Seriously, I thought we supposed to have some respect as a poster here, but if this is what you’re going to do I don’t see any reason for it. You wanna call me a liar at least man up and say it. > [@](#): > > Which is fine, since IANAMod. If you have to descend to those depths to make an argument, I rest content. You mean those depths where I clearly point out that I have altered the text in the quote tags in order to make a point? Or the depths where I clearly explain how this guy is a bigot? Cuz I’m pretty ok with being right. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/256 "2010-10-22T16:51:46Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > What’s Poe’s law? > > Of course it was a joke. Poe’s law says it is impossible to tell parodies of extreme right-wing thought from the real thing. > [@JThunder](#): > > No, he didn’t. He said that when he sees airline passengers in traditional Muslim garb, he gets nervous. Not afraid – just nervous. And he wasn’t talking about people in Muslim attire in general – just when they’re on an airplane. > > There’s enough confusion on this matter. It doesn’t do us any good to exaggerate the nature of his supposedly offensive remark. Getting nervous around people in muslim garb is stupid. They’re not the people you need to be afraid of. Why shouldn’t NPR get rid of someone who has such dumb reactions? If only Fox news would do the same. (Of course, who would they then have besides Chris Wallace and Sheperd Smith.) ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/257 "2010-10-22T16:53:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > He was expressing a fear of a particular group which he could identify by how they dress. > > My example was him expressing a fear about a particular group which he could identify by how they dress. > > Are you going to make me post the definition of an analogy? Maybe you _should_ look it up. Context is everything…even in an analogy if, in reality, you are trying to honestly compare two things. Oh, and your addition of a slur in your so-called analogy was meant to invoke outrage. A very poor anaolgy indeed. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yeah. So? > > Are you arguing we should bow to our base fears regardless of their truth? > > He is in about as much danger from the redneck on the plane as he is from a Muslim on a plane. I suppose the redneck is slightly less dangerous to him _on a plane_ but as I just posted the chances are vanishingly small a Muslim will get him either (1 in 13 million from dying by _any_ terrorist act per plane flight). No, and neither was Williams. That is the point that you won’t get through your skull. Maybe you should look up and post the definition of terrorism as well. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/258 "2010-10-22T17:10:54Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Maybe you _should_ look it up. Context is everything…even in an analogy if, in reality, you are trying to honestly compare two things. Oh, and your addition of a slur in your so-called analogy was meant to invoke outrage. A very poor anaolgy indeed. > > No, and neither was Williams. That is the point that you won’t get through your skull. Maybe you should look up and post the definition of terrorism as well. Fine…replace “redneck” with “white guy”. In the last ten years Williams was statistically more likely to die at the hands of a white guy because Williams was black than he was to die at the hands of a Muslim because he was an American. And hate crimes are denoted as such because they amount to terrorism against a particular group. If we include any crime he could be a victim of the chances skew dramatically. So plugin “white guy” to Williams statement and imagine how things would have played out. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/259 "2010-10-22T17:20:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fine…replace “redneck” with “white guy”. > > In the last ten years Williams was statistically more likely to die at the hands of a white guy because Williams was black than he was to die at the hands of a Muslim because he was an American. > > And hate crimes are denoted as such because they amount to terrorism against a particular group. If we include any crime he could be a victim of the chances skew dramatically. > > So plugin “white guy” to Williams statement and imagine how things would have played out. You would also have to get rid of the airplane part for it to be a good analogy. I already did that for you a few posts back and I said that his fear would not be unfounded or racist. You seem obsessed with statistics. You also seem uninterested in human behavior. For the third time, there does not have to be a logical reason for the fear. This is how terrorism works. People simply don’t read actuary tables to decide how to live their lives…they operate on gut reactions. If it was know that one plane that will take off today has a bomb on it, would you be willing to fly that day? Sure, your odds of being on that one plane are miniscule but that does not change the fact that people experience fear in a situation such as this. Most people know that your chances of dying in a car are MUCH greater than dying in a plane crash yet we feel more apprehensive about flying than driving in general. Any idea why? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/260 "2010-10-22T17:43:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are you arguing we should bow to our base fears regardless of their truth? Did you watch the damn interview? THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT WILLIAMS WAS MAKING. That while he, and others, may have fears, it is nonetheless wrong to to blindly follow them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=14)