# Should longtime NPR analyst Juan Williams have been fired for comments he made on O'Reilly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887 "2010-10-21T14:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/41 "2010-10-21T16:07:27Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > I agree. NPR could fire him because they don’t like the color of suits he wears, assuming he doesn’t have a contract that says otherwise. That’s the employer’s right. But is it “Right”? Is it morally right for companies to lay people off by the thousands in order to ship their jobs to India and China? I think I’ll worry about that long before I worry about the morality of a news organization firing a journalist for destroying his own credibility. I’m sure he’ll be fine. He’ll get hired to blog on some right web site and keep being “the black guy who doesn’t like Obama” on Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/42 "2010-10-21T16:08:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He still thinks Muslims on planes are going to blow him up. No, he didn’t say that. He said it makes him nervous…it’s a fear. Most people recognize that their fears are irrational, but they are fears none the less and they sometime drive people’s behavior and beliefs. Just because you fear something, doesn’t mean you actually believe it’s going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/43 "2010-10-21T16:09:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > He’s nervous because people who dress like Muslims are probably muslim. And muslims are the ones who blew up the planes. I believe it’s the truth because he wouldn’t have said it otherwise (indeed, his politics suggest he’d go the other way) - I’m making no determination on how reasonable of a thought it is, but I believe that most Americans would feel similarly. I feel that it’s foolish to think that way. It’s an example of thinking with your primitive brain instead of with your logical functioning brain. The 911 terrorists did not dress in Muslim garb; they made great effort to “blend in” and not draw any attention to themselves. When I see people dressed in obvious Muslim attire on my plane, I am quite happy. I know that they are people following their religious code, and really, they are much less likely to be terrorists than that odd looking twitchy guy in the suit sitting in Row 12. I think NPR should have fired Juan Williams for being stupid. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/44 "2010-10-21T16:10:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Whenever I see somebody with a crucifix, that makes me nervous because they are identifying first and foremost as Christians, and I get worried. I get nervous. Christians kill doctors and blow up gay bars. They also rape children. Not all of them but some do. Can I object to a church been built? I don’t think the guy should be fired for what he said but if NPR are that careful about what their employees say then he should have been more carefull. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/45 "2010-10-21T16:11:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I disagree. If the test is that no NPR ‘journalists’ (commentators?) can have a political opinion or slant, then why haven’t they whacked Gwen, or the other broad on FNS? They are both liberal as well, after all. Cite? > [@](#): > > But where you and I completely agree is that NPR was just looking for an excuse to get rid of him. Again, because NPR slants way left and he contributes a lot to Fox News (not just FNS), which doesn’t agree with their political outlook. You have already been factually corrected on this. NPR is non-partisan. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/46 "2010-10-21T16:11:46Z")
Williams’s credibility was harmed because he made a _racist_ statement, not because he made a conservative statement or an illiberal statement. Unless the conservatives here owning racism as integral to their ideology, is that it? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/47 "2010-10-21T16:11:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Is it morally right for companies to lay people off by the thousands in order to ship their jobs to India and China? Nice hi-jack, but I’ll bite. Sure, it’s morally right for companies to look after their shareholder’s interests. Companies aren’t in existence to employ people. They are in existence to generate a profit for their investors. It’s the government’s obligation to foster an environment that incentivizes business to invest in their jurisdiction and thus help create jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/48 "2010-10-21T16:12:28Z")
First, I love NPR. I listen to it every day. I acknowledge that its stories skew liberal, although they are not a shill for the Democratic party. On the whole they try to be balanced. But, if this is the sole reason for dismissing Williams, I think they over-reacted. He seems to bemoan the fact that Muslims on a plane with him cause that gut reaction, and he knows in his head that it’s a bigoted response. It’s similar to the Jesse Jackson quote above. At least, that’s a conceivable defense to his comment. I think it’s more likely, as implied by the article, that NPR has been looking for an excuse to get rid of him as he’s become more indentified with Fox and the right-wing media, and they seized on this incident to do it. I’m not that worked up about it though, I’m sure Fox pays him well (probably better than NPR). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/49 "2010-10-21T16:14:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I disagree. If the test is that no NPR ‘journalists’ (commentators?) can have a political opinion or slant, then why haven’t they whacked Gwen, or the other broad on FNS? They are both liberal as well, after all. This wasn’t a political comment. You acknowledged that a few posts ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/50 "2010-10-21T16:15:00Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > You have absolute, rock solid proof that the organization that contributes 15% of your revenue had nothing to say about this incident, or the run-up where surely they were looking to whack him? You’d bet your child’s life on it? Exactly what branch of government or individul government official do you believe makes firing decisions for NPR? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/51 "2010-10-21T16:17:24Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Nice hi-jack, but I’ll bite. Sure, it’s morally right for companies to look after their shareholder’s interests. Companies aren’t in existence to employ people. They are in existence to generate a profit for their investors. It’s the government’s obligation to foster an environment that incentivizes business to invest in their jurisdiction and thus help create jobs. Then it’s morally right for NPR to look after the interest of the public that funds it. Your answer is off point, by the way. I was asking whether layoffs are moral, not whether it serves they serve corporate goals. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/52 "2010-10-21T16:19:07Z")
I found it interesting that NPR did not see fit to sever their connection with [Andrei Codrescu](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-12-23/news/9512230052_1_npr-christian-coalition-andrei-codrescu) when he wished that Christians would evaporate from the face of the earth (although they did apologize). Funny that their “editorial standards” don’t extend to bigotry against all religions, instead of just one. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/53 "2010-10-21T16:20:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > But, if this is the sole reason for dismissing Williams, I think they over-reacted. He seems to bemoan the fact that Muslims on a plane with him cause that gut reaction, and he knows in his head that it’s a bigoted response. It’s similar to the Jesse Jackson quote above. At least, that’s a conceivable defense to his comment. > > I think it’s more likely, as implied by the article, that NPR has been looking for an excuse to get rid of him as he’s become more indentified with Fox and the right-wing media, and they seized on this incident to do it. I’m not that worked up about it though, I’m sure Fox pays him well (probably better than NPR). If you are a journalist who appears on broadcast media every day, and you make a comment which requires that sort of defense, you are incompetent. It’s not as though Juan Williams is Sarah Palin fresh off the plane from Alaska and unprepared for the gotcha media. ETA: Fair point, **Shodan**. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/54 "2010-10-21T16:25:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then it’s morally right for NPR to look after the interest of the public that funds it. > > Your answer is off point, by the way. I was asking whether layoffs are moral, not whether it serves they serve corporate goals. If the firing of Juan Williams was because of their dislike of some bias he presented in his comments, and they don’t hold all of their on air personalities to the same litmus test…they don’t really have a moral ground to stand on. WRT layoffs, the company’s moral obligation to its shareholders trumps any moral obligation it has to its employees. Not laying off employees and risking the long term viability of the company is morally wrong to the shareholders and any other remaining employees that don’t get layed off. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/55 "2010-10-21T16:27:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Juan Williams has a right to express whatever bigotry he wants, but NPR doesn’t have to pay him for it. He was getting paid for his appearance? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/56 "2010-10-21T16:30:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > First, I love NPR. I listen to it every day. I acknowledge that its stories skew liberal, although they are not a shill for the Democratic party. On the whole they try to be balanced. > > But, if this is the sole reason for dismissing Williams, I think they over-reacted. He seems to bemoan the fact that Muslims on a plane with him cause that gut reaction, and he knows in his head that it’s a bigoted response. It’s similar to the Jesse Jackson quote above. At least, that’s a conceivable defense to his comment. > > I think it’s more likely, as implied by the article, that NPR has been looking for an excuse to get rid of him as he’s become more indentified with Fox and the right-wing media, and they seized on this incident to do it. I’m not that worked up about it though, I’m sure Fox pays him well (probably better than NPR). I agree with all that. If what he said in that show were the only thing that NPR had against him, then they went off the deep-end. But the whole thing reads like a “last straw” situation and I’m reserving judgment until I know more. > [@Shodan](#): > > I found it interesting that NPR did not see fit to sever their connection with Andrei Codrescu when he wished that Christians would evaporate from the face of the earth (although they did apologize). Funny that their “editorial standards” don’t extend to bigotry against all religions, instead of just one. You had the moral high ground there and then lost it again. NPR’s editorial standards clearly DO extend to bigotry against Christians since they offered the apology for the Codrescu incident (and I agree that what he said was deeply inappropriate), but on a purely like-for-like basis it does look like they’re less tolerant of some forms of bigotry than others. Of course if the Williams firing was based on more than just those remarks, then it’s not like-for-like and the comparison fails. Hence the caveat above. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/57 "2010-10-21T16:36:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Of course if the Williams firing was based on more than just those remarks, then it’s not like-for-like and the comparison fails. Hence the caveat above. Unless they changed their policy in the last 15 years. Has anyone said something similar objectionable, but more recently than 1995? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/58 "2010-10-21T16:41:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > NPR’s editorial standards clearly DO extend to bigotry against Christians since they offered the apology for the Codrescu incident… I think there is an important difference. Codrescu’s comment was made on “All Things Considered”, and is obviously subject to NPR editorial standards. Williams’ remark was not only nowhere near as offensive, but was not made on NPR’s air. But they didn’t fire Codrescu for something he said that was clearly made in his capacity as an NPR commentator, but they did fire Williams for something he said that was not. If NPR really fired Williams because he goes on Fox, then they are being dishonest, obviously. What they meant to say is “none of our employees can hold an un-PC thought or we will fire your ass”. They’re just not honest enough to say so. Besides, I thought black people couldn’t be racists, because the power structure in the US is white. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/59 "2010-10-21T16:42:56Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > You have absolute, rock solid proof that the organization that contributes 15% of your revenue had nothing to say about this incident, or the run-up where surely they were looking to whack him? You’d bet your child’s life on it? The government funds research at universities. Should someone who doesn’t get tenure start blaming the government? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/60 "2010-10-21T16:46:00Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > If the firing of Juan Williams was because of their dislike of some bias he presented in his comments That’s not why he was fired. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=4)