# Should longtime NPR analyst Juan Williams have been fired for comments he made on O'Reilly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887 "2010-10-21T14:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/81 "2010-10-21T17:30:21Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > If they can show that some government agency disagreed with the research and caused the lack of tenure? Sure. > > My point was, do you have absolute evidence that the government had nothing to do with it? Obviously, I’m asking our dear mod to prove a negative, which ain’t gonna happen (about as ridiculous as that asshole Axelrod talking about Obama’s unfortunate comments wrt the Chamber getting foreign money: “Can you prove they haven’t!?!”) > > But I don’t like people barking at me in absolutes when they have absolutely no fact or data to back it up, no absolute proof. Unless you were in the lefty pinko commie we-hate-America conference room 😃 when they were having the discussion about Juan’s career path at NPR, nobody here can say for sure. It’s your conspiracy theory, you’re the one who needs to back it up. Do you have absolute evidence that the government has nothing to do with eclipses? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/82 "2010-10-21T17:34:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite? Here is the quote: > [@Jesse Jackson](#): > > There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved… After all we have been through. Just to think we can’t walk down our own streets, how humiliating. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/83 "2010-10-21T17:36:29Z")
Ok, so Jesse Jackson was wrong. Now can we talk about Juan Williams again? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/84 "2010-10-21T17:38:59Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Obviously I was referring to the reasons why they were looking to axe him. How is that political? They were unhappy he was making regular appearances on another network and taking stands on political issues. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/85 "2010-10-21T17:39:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He’s mostly talking about Arabs, but OK, it wasn’t technically racist, just religiously and ethnically bigoted. He doesn’t specify Arabs. It’s religiously bigoted, certainly. But Codrescu’s comment that “The evaporation of 4 million who believe [in the Rapture] would leave the world an instantly better place.” is also a religiously bigoted statement. So I don’t see why you’re drawing the distinction where you are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/86 "2010-10-21T17:40:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you have absolute evidence that the government has nothing to do with eclipses? They come out on time, on budget and as expected. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/87 "2010-10-21T17:45:16Z")
Codrescu was basically making a joke that if all the self-righteous fundies really did get raptured we’d be better off. It wasn’t a statement about religous people _per se_, but a statement about fanatical idiots, and it was made in the context of humoring their own beliefs about God making them vanish, he wasn’t saying anybody should do anything TO them. The joke was that if the rapture happened we’d be free of a lot of idiots. There was nothing offensive about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/88 "2010-10-21T17:47:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s your conspiracy theory, you’re the one who needs to back it up. Do you have absolute evidence that the government has nothing to do with eclipses? Sorry lefty extremist, that’s not how this works. The quote from **Marley** was > [@](#): > > No, that’s a silly argument. I don’t know NPR’s structure but he was presumably let go by NPR management or the management of the shows that he worked for. The government doesn’t run NPR. That’s last statement especially seems like a fact. Since CPB gives a lot of money to NPR, are you suggesting that there’s NO CHANCE that anyone from the government or at the white house had anything to do with either the firing, or the campaign to remove, Juan? You’re that sure? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/89 "2010-10-21T17:49:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ok, so Jesse Jackson was wrong. Now can we talk about Juan Williams again? No, it was you who was, as usual, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/90 "2010-10-21T17:50:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Codrescu was basically making a joke that if all the self-righteous fundies really did get raptured we’d be better off. It wasn’t a statement about religous people _per se_, but a statement about fanatical idiots, and it was made in the context of humoring their own beliefs about God making them vanish, he wasn’t saying anybody should do anything TO them. The joke was that if the rapture happened we’d be free of a lot of idiots. There was nothing offensive about it. You don’t get dizzy from all that spinning. What, exactly, did Williams say we should do TO people in Muslim garb? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/91 "2010-10-21T17:52:10Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Sorry lefty extremist, that’s not how this works. The quote from **Marley** was > > That’s last statement especially seems like a fact. > > Since CPB gives a lot of money to NPR, are you suggesting that there’s NO CHANCE that anyone from the government or at the white house had anything to do with either the firing, or the campaign to remove, Juan? You’re that sure? Yes, I’m that sure. It is a fact. Feel free to prove otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/92 "2010-10-21T17:53:54Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Since CPB gives a lot of money to NPR, are you suggesting that there’s NO CHANCE that anyone from the government or at the white house had anything to do with either the firing, or the campaign to remove, Juan? There’s no chance. The government does not control the board of NPR, and You’re grasping at straws here. And what “campaign to remove Juan” are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/93 "2010-10-21T17:54:15Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > You don’t get dizzy from all that spinning. I’m not spinning. I was putting something in context that was posted without any. > [@](#): > > What, exactly, did Williams say we should do TO people in Muslim garb? Be afraid of them. He also generalized to all Muslims. Codrescu did not generalize, he made a joke about a specific stupid belief, just like people make jokes all the time about “72 virgins.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/94 "2010-10-21T17:59:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s no chance. The government does not control the board of NPR, and You’re grasping at straws here. And what “campaign to remove Juan” are you talking about? The fact that NPR was looking for a reason to get rid of him, because of his participation with Fox News. More details [here](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29892.html). > [@](#): > > One source close to NPR executives said their discomfort with the Fox appearances by NPR personnel has been long-standing and has intensified over time. > “This has been a building thing. There has been a concern in the upper regions of NPR that Fox uses Mara and Juan as cover” to defuse arguments that the TV network is populated with right-wing voices, said the source, who asked not to be named. As for the down-the-middle claims by NPR… methinks the lady doth protest too much. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/95 "2010-10-21T18:00:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Be afraid of them. He also generalized to all Muslims. Codrescu did not generalize, he made a joke about a specific stupid belief, just like people make jokes all the time about “72 virgins.” No, he did not. He said HE was nervous. He didn’t say we should all be nervous. Nonetheless, Williams didn’t generalize either. He was very specific about being nervous of those in Muslim garb…not all muslims. See the similarity? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/96 "2010-10-21T18:08:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > The fact that NPR was looking for a reason to get rid of him, because of his participation with Fox News. That’s not a campaign. The people who paid him to contribute to NPR did not want him to be on Fox so much. He chose to ignore them, or at least not comply as much as they wanted. So they let him go. Nothing about that says “campaign.” That’s a disagreement between Williams and his employer. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/97 "2010-10-21T18:09:57Z")
And for those who say the NPR isn’t left leaning, what of the [report](http://standupamericaus.com/soros-gives-1-million-to-target-fox-news:39776) of ubersquishy Soros donating $1.8m to NPR to hire himself 100 reporters. Are you going to say, with straight face, that they won’t be cut from the Soros mold? Is that how NPR gets further donations? I admit that this is a conservative link, sent to me by a relative, so if someone has some other evidence that he didn’t do it, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/98 "2010-10-21T18:12:39Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > The fact that NPR was looking for a reason to get rid of him, because of his participation with Fox News. More details [here](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29892.html). > > As for the down-the-middle claims by NPR… methinks the lady doth protest too much. What does this have to do with your government conspiracy theory? It has already been acknowledged repeatedly in this thread that NPR was uncomfortable with the erosion of credibility that goes with being a Fox News regular, and that this was likely a “last straw” situation. So what? How does that tie into your government conspiracy theory (or indicate that NPR is partisan)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/99 "2010-10-21T18:14:11Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > No, he did not. He said HE was nervous. He didn’t say we should all be nervous. A distinction without a difference. > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, Williams didn’t generalize either. He was very specific about being nervous of those in Muslim garb…not all muslims. See the similarity? No, because he wasn’t referencing a specific belief, but simply cultural garb. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/100 "2010-10-21T18:15:28Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > And for those who say the NPR isn’t left leaning, what of the [report](http://standupamericaus.com/soros-gives-1-million-to-target-fox-news:39776) of ubersquishy Soros donating $1.8m to NPR to hire himself 100 reporters. Cite that Soros will be hiring the reporters himself? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=6)