# Should longtime NPR analyst Juan Williams have been fired for comments he made on O'Reilly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887 "2010-10-21T14:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/121 "2010-10-21T18:59:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Williams wasn’t joking, and yes it is not bigoted to critique a specific belief, while it _is_ bigoted to make asumptions about people knowing nothing about them but what they’re wearing. So, criticizing Islam as a belief would be okay…just don’t make a comment about their garb? Keep on spinning… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/122 "2010-10-21T19:00:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Um… it was a quote from Beck that I cited. Yes. And you passed the allegation along wholesale, complete with the loaded wording. > [@](#): > > If I were NPR and I knew my sugar daddy just donated $1.8m to hire 100 new reporters, am I going to hire guys who a) think like he does, or b) completely piss off the benefactor. Proof NPR knows more about journalistic objectivity than you do. 😉 You’re still falling for Beck’s bullshit. Soros is not NPR’s sugar daddy. [A lot of information about NPR’s finances is available on its website if you’re interested.](http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/publicradiofinances.html) In fiscal 2009, NPR had $152 million in revenue. $49 million of that came from grants. Please explain to me how Soros just bought off NPR with a gift equal to about 1 percent of its annual revenue. Here’s a list of people and groups who donated at least $1 million to NPR in fiscal 2008: Angie’s List General Motors Corporation Lumber Liquidators Northwestern Mutual Foundation Novo Nordisk Progressive Casualty Insurance Company Prudential Financial State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Company CITGO Petroleum Corporation CSX Corporation Feeding America Fox Searchlight Pictures Kashi Company MasterCard National Association of Realtors Netflix Overture Films Pabst Brewing Company PBS Raymond James Financial Services Travel Guard Universal Pictures Visa Warner Home Video Institute for Supply Management Intel Corporation Johnson Controls Lindamood-Bell Learning Systems MGM Paramount Home Entertainment Paramount Pictures Philips Healthcare POM Wonderful REI Scotts Miracle-Gro Company U.S. Bank Vestas Wind Systems Walden University Yahoo! > [@](#): > > (which is why you, nor anyone else, can CATEGORICALLY PROVE that the White house, and their $400m/year contribution, had no impact at all in getting rid of Mr Fox Friendly). I can’t prove it categorically. On the other hand, I can support my opinion with evidence. I haven’t seen any of that from you so far. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/123 "2010-10-21T19:05:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This statement is also completely false. No, it isn’t. He said > [@](#): > > But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous. What class of people make him nervous? Muslims. People he thinks are Muslims, people who he thinks are dressed like Muslims. What qualifiers did he place on this? None. Any and all Muslims make him nervous, specifically when he’s one a plane. He didn’t say ‘Shifty looking Muslims’ or ‘Muslims with suspicious bulges in their robes’ or even ‘Muslims wearing black turbans’. He said ‘Muslims’. Now, how is this not a general statement about Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/124 "2010-10-21T19:10:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They _are_ a bunch of idiots. It’s a stupid belief. It’s no different than ridiculing flat earthers. And fundamentalist/traditionalist Muslims _are_ dangerous. It’s still bigotry to say it, because not all people who believe in the Rapture are idiots who the world would be better off without, and not all fundamentalist Muslims are dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/125 "2010-10-21T19:12:46Z")
You guys are analysing the wrong parts of the statement. The explicit admission of bigotry in the quote is the phrase: “Look, I’m not a bigot, but…” ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/126 "2010-10-21T19:19:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I can’t prove it categorically. On the other hand, I can support my opinion with evidence. I haven’t seen any of that from you so far. I’m \*\*\*not \*\*\*saying categorically that they influenced it. You \*\*\*are \*\*\*saying categorically that they didn’t. That’s the difference between us - I have an open mind about such things. > [@](#): > > Yes. And you passed the allegation along wholesale, complete with the loaded wording. I gave it something of a disclaimer when I said > [@](#): > > I admit that this is a conservative link, sent to me by a relative, so if someone has some other evidence that he didn’t do it, I’m all ears. That’s hardly ‘passing along the allegation wholesale’ - I’m looking for evidence to the contrary in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/127 "2010-10-21T19:20:47Z")
More info on why he was [whacked](http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/) > [@](#): > > “I said what I meant to say, which is that it’s an honest experience that, when I’m in an airport, and I see people who are in Muslim garb, who identify themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I do a double take. I have a moment of anxiety or fear given what happened on 9/11. That’s just a reality.” > > Weiss said “that crosses the line,” and went on to say that he had made “a bigoted statement,” Williams said. > > “It’s not a bigoted statement,” Williams said he argued back. “In fact, in the course of this conversation with Bill O’Reilly, I said that we have, as Americans, an obligation to be careful to protect the constitutional rights of everyone in the country. And to make sure we don’t have any outbreak of bigotry. > > “But, that there’s a reality. You cannot ignore what happened on 9/11. And you cannot ignore the connection to Islamic radicalism. And you can’t ignore the fact of what has even been recently said in court with regard to ‘this is the first drop of blood in a Muslim war on America.’” > > According to Williams, Weiss said the decision to fire him had been made “up the chain” and “there’s nothing you can say that will change my mind.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/128 "2010-10-21T19:23:10Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I have an open mind about such things. Cite? 😉 Do you agree that Beck’s Soros claim (and your assertion that he is NPR’s “sugar daddy”) has been debunked based on the financial data I just showed you? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/129 "2010-10-21T19:23:19Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > What class of people make him nervous? Muslims. People he thinks are Muslims, people who he thinks are dressed like Muslims. No: the class of people who make him nervous are Muslims **who deliberately dress in a way to advertise their religion**. This is a subclass of Muslims. And, interestingly, if you drew a Venn Diagram of this subclass of Muslims, and the subclass of Muslims who are trying to blow up your airplane, **there would be zero overlap**. The person dressed in Muslim garb on your airplane presents far less danger to you than the person dressed as a nun, or as a vacationer, or as a businessman. Any of the latter three would be excellent disguises for a Muslim terrorist planning on blowing up your plane, but the Muslim garb would be a terrible costume. And even acknowledging the truth of that doesn’t undercut it in a “never match wits with a Sicilian” manner: no terrorist would think, “I’ll wear Muslim garb, because everyone knows no terrorist would wear Muslim garb!” Terrorists know that, even though fearing people in Muslim garb is completely dumbshit, plenty of people do it anyway. Because plenty of people are completely dumbshit. If you wear Muslim garb, people like Juan Williams are going to be watching you like a hawk, and your evil plot will be much harder to complete. So his bigotry is against people who are clearly not terrorists. It’s an understandable emotional reaction, due to the cultural priming we’ve gotten over the last 20 years or so, but any halfway decent person should recognize that it’s irrational. I didn’t see any such recognition in his quote. As for Codrescu, it helps me to imagine an equivalent: imagine a Chinese official sneeringly hoping that Tibetan Buddhists would go ahead and achieve Nirvana and disappear. It’d be hinky. However, it’s true that millennialists in our society are a pretty pernicious influence on politics: this is a statement about a specific trend, no different from saying that Trotskyites are a pernicious influence or saying that Black Panthers are a pernicious influence. It’s not remotely bigoted to suggest that a particular set of beliefs makes a society worse, as long as you’re focusing on a real set of beliefs and representing it accurately. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/130 "2010-10-21T19:32:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No: the class of people who make him nervous are Muslims **who deliberately dress in a way to advertise their religion**. This is a subclass of Muslims. Oh? And how does he tell the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/131 "2010-10-21T19:38:24Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > Oh? And how does he tell the difference? They’re the ones wearing burqas? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/132 "2010-10-21T19:40:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Cite? 😉 > > Do you agree that Beck’s Soros claim (and your assertion that he is NPR’s “sugar daddy”) has been debunked based on the financial data I just showed you? If Soros’ gift were inconsequential in size, then you’d have a point. Is $1m out of $150m budget unconsequential? Does Soros have influence in liberal circles, where he could certainly nudge donors in NPRs direction? I don’t know, but I certainly wouldn’t turn my nose up at it if I were NPR. I’d also want more of his largesse. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/133 "2010-10-21T19:45:26Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Is $1m out of $150m budget unconsequential? It’s about 1 percent of their yearly revenue. And that’s $152 million without a penny from Soros, by the way. So apparently they can raise about the same amount of money without him. On top of about $150 million in annual revenue, they also have an endowment of about $250 million. A big chunk of which came from Ray Kroc’s widow, which is to say NPR has far more money from McDonald’s than it’s ever going to get from George Soros. So please tell me again why $1.8 million buys him tons of influence and why they are sooo desperate to suckle at his teat. Maybe we’re having a problem with definitions here: when you say you’re open minded, do you’re not going to change your mind no matter what the facts are? That’s not usually what open minded means. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/134 "2010-10-21T19:52:50Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > They’re the ones wearing burqas? So _anyone_ wearing Muslim garb is automatically doing it cuz they’re deliberately flaunting that they’re Muslim, and not cuz, say, they forgot to do laundry that week? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/135 "2010-10-21T19:53:49Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Being openly racist on TV undercuts the impartiality a newsman is supposed to have. Islam is not a race. And let’s face it, governments all over the globe are not spending billions of dollars on security and intelligence efforts in an effort to protect themselves from being blown up by white, blond, fifteen-year-old cheerleaders from Nebraska. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Islamic terrorists in countries all over the earth trying to find successful ways to kill as many innocent people as possible and a person would not only be ridiculous but stupid not to feel some degree of trepidation when finding themselves traveling with members of the religion that gave birth to that ideology, especially on an airplane. We’re all waiting for the next big strike and we all know there are plenty of Muslims out there trying to make it happen. Wariness when it comes to Muslims, while in a perfect world not desirable, is not only understandable but necessary as it heightens awareness and makes people more vigilant to signs of danger which may be afoot. NPR’s firing of Williams is just another example of what is becoming to my mind one of the greatest threats that liberalism poses, which is to the ability of people to think for themselves and to express their own views freely. Whether it’s conservative speakers being shouted down on college campuses, NPR firing Williams, dingbats walking off The View, or pile-ons on the Straight Dope, it’s becoming more and more apparent that to the left, dissenting or opposing views (or even views that inadvertently stray from the party line, such as Williams’) are simply not to be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/136 "2010-10-21T19:54:24Z")
I’m saying that if the $1.8m is earmarked for reporters, then I’m guessing that NPR (which most reasonable poeple believe leans left _anyway_) will accede to Soros’ wishes and have them toe the line. You really don’t understand that? You honestly feel that there’s NO CHANCE of that happening, oh Open-minded Moderator? On another note, I see that the very left wing Washington Post has [come out](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/21/AR2010102103973.html?hpid=topnews) against the firing. > [@](#): > > In making this confession, Mr. Williams undoubtedly spoke for many Americans who are wrestling with similar feelings. His words could be offensive to some, if construed as an endorsement of negative stereotyping. But the full broadcast makes clear that Mr. Williams intended the opposite. To be sure, he struggled to get his point across, because host Bill O’Reilly kept interrupting him. But Mr. Williams did manage to observe that “we don’t want in America, people to have their rights violated to be attacked on the street because they heard a rhetoric from Bill O’Reilly and they act crazy.” > In short, Mr. Williams was attempting to do exactly what a responsible commentator should do: speak honestly without being inflammatory. His reward was to lose his job, just as Agriculture Department employee Shirley Sherrod lost hers over purportedly racist remarks that turned out to be anything but. NPR management appears to have learned nothing from that rush to judgment. “Political correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don’t address reality,” Mr. Williams told Mr. O’Reilly. NPR, alas, has proven his point. So as I said at the beginning of this thread, it’s just another Shriley Sherrod incident. How sad that the Political Correctness brigade of the SDMB can’t see that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/137 "2010-10-21T20:05:02Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > So, criticizing Islam as a belief would be okay…just don’t make a comment about their garb? It is not bigoted to do either one of those things. What is bigoted is to make _assumptions_ about them based on thir clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/138 "2010-10-21T20:14:29Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > They may have had the right to do it, but it’s so over the top for NPR to fire someone who was telling the truth… and frankly, a truth probably shared by a majority of Americans. > > Of course NPR is notoriously ultra-liberal, so it’s not surprising that they took the political correctness to an extreme. It will be a good day in this country when we finally de-fund them completely. Actually NPR only gets about 10 percent of its funding from the Feds. Heh. Deal with it, righty. The Feds can’t do 'em in by defunding them. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/139 "2010-10-21T20:19:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > He’s nervous because people who dress like Muslims are probably muslim. And muslims are the ones who blew up the planes. How did they dress? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887/140 "2010-10-21T20:19:19Z")
If the government has so much control over NPR, then why doesn’t it take conservative slants under Republican administrations? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-longtime-npr-analyst-juan-williams-have-been-fired-for-comments-he-made-on-oreilly/557887.md?page=8)