# Should male rape victims have to pay child support? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642 "2008-11-01T22:45:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/21 "2008-11-02T03:24:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This issue looks pretty clear to me. If a person doesn’t give consent to sex, then he/she should not be held responsible for the consequences of the sex. And if a person is legally presumed to be unable to consent to sex simply on the grounds of being younger than a certain statutory age, then the absence of responsibility should apply in that case too. It’s not that I disagree with you here, but… > [@](#): > > _The criminal-law process can take a while, and in the meantime, the kid’s gotta be fed and clothed._ The kid’s gotta be fed and clothed regardless of the circumstances of its conception. I’m not comfortable with the idea that the _baby_ should be deprived because its mother is a rapist. If I ruled the world this situation wouldn’t come up though, because I’m even less comfortable with the idea of a child being raised by a rapist. If the victim/minor victim’s parents want to raise the baby, I think they should be awarded custody (with the rapist paying child support) unless they are for some reason unfit. Otherwise the baby should be placed with an adoptive or foster family. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/22 "2008-11-02T03:54:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Strangulation will stimulate an erection, and is the common method of forcing an erection in such cases as I recall. > > As for the OP, no the male victim shouldn’t pay, but I’d expect he’d be forced to. Even men who aren’t the father have been forced to pay; the real purpose of child support in this country is to take money from men and give it to women. Regardless of the man being at all responsible or related to the child, and regardless of if the women spends a dime on the kid. Forgive the hijack, but as an ex-deadbeat dad, I have to say you’re wrong. The purpose of child support is to force jackasses to man up. I’ll agree that it’s often used as a club between men and women, but many men’s history of avoiding their responsibilities is largely the cause of that situation. Moreover I know too many women who have to struggle to make ends meet because of men who won’t do the honorable thing to let your statement go unchallenged ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/23 "2008-11-02T04:23:59Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The kid’s gotta be fed and clothed regardless of the circumstances of its conception. I’m not comfortable with the idea that the baby should be deprived because its mother is a rapist. I don’t like that idea either. But it seems even worse to me to impose parental responsibilities on somebody who did nothing to incur them except be an unconsenting victim of rape. Not to be melodramatic or anything, but ISTM that that’s almost a form of enslavement. In general, I’m not happy with the notion that consenting to sex potentially means consenting to parenthood, but I’m willing to accept that the courts impose that view, as the most efficient means of providing for the needs of innocent children. If a man impregnates a woman and she chooses not to terminate the pregnancy, or if a woman becomes pregnant and doesn’t terminate the pregnancy within the window of legality, then I accept that both of them are on the hook for supporting that child when it’s born, no matter how much they don’t want it. But where rape is involved, I have to draw the line. If you didn’t consent to sex, you cannot be held liable for parental responsibilities. Of course, the ultimate problem with this whole situation is the dubious concept of statutory rape. If the 15-year-old boy in question had consensually impregnated a 15-year-old girl, there would be no debate over whether he should pay child support. Or if an adult woman had forcibly raped a boy and he’d reported the crime, his lack of responsibility would be clear. But here, we seem to have a case in which a boy voluntarily had sex with a woman a few years older than himself, and only chose to treat it as rape when it became clear he might be on the hook for child support. I still think that if the statutory rape charges are upheld, the boy ought to be off the hook, but I can see that it looks like more of a gray area than the other two hypothetical cases. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/24 "2008-11-02T04:37:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If [this](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/world/africa/29briefs-RAPEVICTIMEX_BRF.html?ref=world) NY Times article is the story you’re referring to, she was actually 23. Just as sick, though. [According to this article](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27484976/): > [@](#): > > Initial local media reports said Duhulow was 23, but her father told Amnesty International she was 13. Some of the Somali journalists who first reported the killing later told Amnesty International that they had reported she was 23 based upon her physical appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/25 "2008-11-02T05:38:53Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The kid’s gotta be fed and clothed regardless of the circumstances of its conception. I’m not comfortable with the idea that the _baby_ should be deprived because its mother is a rapist. Then why not just pick some random person out of a crowd, and make him/her pay? That person would have had just as much responsibility for the baby’s creation as the rape victim. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/26 "2008-11-02T05:50:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see how it could be considered rape. I think calling it rape trivializes real rape. I don’t see how forcible intercourse would even be physically possible. > > I say if he busted a nut, it wasn’t rape. Rape victims don’t come. Sometimes I’m simply amazed by the words you type. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/27 "2008-11-02T06:04:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Then why not just pick some random person out of a crowd, and make him/her pay? That person would have had just as much responsibility for the baby’s creation as the rape victim. Or, of course, make society as a whole pay, through some sort of tax-funded program. That still wouldn’t be just, but at least it’d be fair. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/28 "2008-11-02T07:02:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Forgive the hijack, but as an ex-deadbeat dad, I have to say you’re wrong. The purpose of child support is to force jackasses to man up. I’ll agree that it’s often used as a club between men and women, but many men’s history of avoiding their responsibilities is largely the cause of that situation. Moreover I know too many women who have to struggle to make ends meet because of men who won’t do the honorable thing to let your statement go unchallenged If that were true, the courts wouldn’t force men who aren’t parents to pay for kids that aren’t theirs; nor would they be indifferent to whether the kid actually sees any benefit from it. It has nothing to do with “manning up” or responsibility, or with the kid even. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/29 "2008-11-02T08:24:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [According to this article](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27484976/): Yikes. What a fucked up group of people. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/30 "2008-11-02T08:46:40Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > If that were true, the courts wouldn’t force men who aren’t parents to pay for kids that aren’t theirs Cite for an instance where courts have done so? If you’re talking, as I think you probably are, about cases where an assumed father belatedly discovers (frequently during a divorce) that he is not the biological father of his ex-wife’s child, then I don’t agree that the purpose of that is just to rook the man. The point in those cases is to have the man continue supporting the child whom he voluntarily accepted as his child years ago, and with whom he has developed a parent-child relationship. I agree that it’s despicable for a woman to fool her husband into thinking that another man’s child is his, but I don’t think it’s appropriate for a man to just walk away from “his” child after learning he’s been fooled, either. The only sure way to guard against such an event is to have paternity testing routinely done at birth. If a man voluntarily accepts a child as his own and has his name put down on the birth certificate as the father, I think he’s signing up for fatherhood, irrespective of the child’s actual genetic parentage. He should not renege on that commitment to the child just because he later learns that the child’s mother was a lying bitch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/31 "2008-11-02T09:08:33Z")
What if a 23 year old female teacher takes her 15 year old male student to a motel . All she wants to do is suck him off but but he ends up forcibly penetrating her vagina and thereby creating a baby. Do the two rapes cancel out and he’s on the hook for child support ? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/32 "2008-11-02T09:09:05Z")
If anyone here recalls my earlier arguments against child support, it’ll blow your minds that I believe rape victims should pay child support in some cases. Child support is not meant for punishing anyone, or rewarding anyone. It’s meant to keep as many children as possible supported by two parents. The welfare of a child is more important than fairness (or whatever we’re arguing here) for a male rape victim. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/33 "2008-11-02T10:16:22Z")
I agree it seems unjust to make male rape victims pay child support. If we let them off the hook, would deadbeat dads start crying “rape”? ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/34 "2008-11-02T11:31:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Der Trihs](#): > > > > If that were true, the courts wouldn’t force men who aren’t parents to pay for kids that aren’t theirs. > > Cite for an instance where courts have done so? I can’t vouch for it’s accuracy, but I read [this article](http://www.reason.com/news/show/29035.html) a few years ago. It gives several examples of men who were forced to pay child support who were not the father, and in fact had never even met the mother. The article describes cases where a mother applying for welfare was told she had to name a father. > [@](#): > > What if the only information the mother provides, I ask Gerhenzon, is that it was 10 years ago, with a white guy named Matt Welch, now between 30 and 40 years old, who maybe lives in the Los Angeles area? > > “In that case, now it depends,” she says. "We run our search on him; if we come back with one Matt Welch who lives in L.A., whose birthday fits that 10-year range, and we have nobody else, we presume in general we have the person. Once they have a “presumed” father they serve him with court papers. But very often that man isn’t served in person, they might leave the papers with someone else, or they might mail it to him. In any case, they don’t even know if the man received the papers. Then if the “father” doesn’t respond to the court in writing within 30 days, a default judgment is entered against him and wage garnishment starts or liens can be placed against him. Even if the “father” later proves that he never met the mother or DNA shows he can’t be the father, he’s SOL because he’s over the thirty day time limit. > [@](#): > > “I contact Child Support Services, and their whole thing is, ‘Take us to court. You don’t like what we’re doing, take us to court,’” he says. “Whether or not you’re the biological father doesn’t matter – if someone’s got your name, and you’ve…failed to participate in the court date, then you have an obligation to pay child support, period.” > > Needless to say, taking DCSS to court is expensive (James says he’s already run up legal bills of $4,000), and success isn’t likely. To add insult to injury, even if you win, you won’t get any of your money back. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/35 "2008-11-02T12:26:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Cite for an instance where courts have done so? > **[Florida man owes $10,000 for child who's not his - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/11/paternity.cases/index.html)** > > Francisco Rodriguez owes more than $10,000 in back child support payments in a paternity case involving a 15-year-old girl who, according to DNA results and the girl's mother, is not his daughter. > [@](#): > > Rodriguez’s odyssey began in 1990, when he says at age 16 he had a four- to five-month relationship with a woman CNN is not identifying. He says when the relationship ended, he did not hear from her again until child support papers arrived at his home in 2003. > > "My wife and I both had a confused look, and we’re wondering, ‘Where is the DNA test?’ " he says. > > But it was long past Florida’s deadline to contest paternity. A court had already named him the father three years before when he did not respond to notices to appear, notices he says he never received because he had moved a lot. > > He was now on the hook for monthly child support, as well as $10,623 in back child support. [http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081013\_11\_A1\_Brande636682](http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081013_11_A1_Brande636682) > [@](#): > > An alleged father must appear at a child support hearing to request a paternity test. If he does not appear, he is legally designated as the father and child support is established in most cases. > > Once designated as the father, that person is financially responsible for the child until he or she is 18 or adopted with a few stipulations for petitions which may vacate the original order, according to Oklahoma statutes. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/36 "2008-11-02T12:50:43Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If anyone here recalls my earlier arguments against child support, it’ll blow your minds that I believe rape victims should pay child support in some cases. > > Child support is not meant for punishing anyone, or rewarding anyone. It’s meant to keep as many children as possible supported by two parents. The welfare of a child is more important than fairness (or whatever we’re arguing here) for a male rape victim. And if the end result is that he kills himself, or her, or flees the country or something of the sort because he’s not only been raped but he’s going to be forced to hand over large sums of money to his rapist for twenty years ? And what makes you think that kid will see any of that money ? Hey, why don’t we be fair and when a man rapes a woman, we force her to pay him for twenty years ? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/37 "2008-11-02T13:02:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If a man voluntarily accepts a child as his own and has his name put down on the birth certificate as the father, I think he’s signing up for fatherhood, irrespective of the child’s actual genetic parentage. He should not renege on that commitment to the child just because he later learns that the child’s mother was a lying bitch. You are right, he shouldn’t. He SHOULD have the legal right to walk away however. In any other circumstance, that lying would be fraud, and most contracts and obligations considered void. I don’t see any difference here. A good family would be likely to work through those issues. The broken ones that are litigating are beyond repair already. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/38 "2008-11-02T14:38:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see how it could be considered rape. I think calling it rape trivializes real rape. I don’t see how forcible intercourse would even be physically possible. > > I say if he busted a nut, it wasn’t rape. Rape victims don’t come. Dude, you don’t watch enough _Law and Order: SVU_. Take a guy home after a date, slip him a roofie, and when he’s out, stick an electric probe in his rectum and stimulate his prostate until he ejaculates. I don’t know if it’s happened in real life, but if it works with bulls (not so much the roofie part), it would most likely work with men. At the very least, it would be considered sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/39 "2008-11-02T14:44:43Z")
And no, I don’t think male rape victims should have to pay support for a child they unwillingly fathered. Whether statutory or forcible, they never gave any meaningful consent, so they should not be held accountable. I don’t think the mother/rapist should be able to keep custody of the child, either. Raping someone shows that she either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about the rights of others, and that’s not someone who should be in charge of a child. At that point, I’d like to see custody offered to the father, and if he chooses to take it, the mother will be required to pay support to him. If he declines, then the child is placed for adoption, and the mother is required to reimburse the state for the costs. Under those circumstances, the father would be immune from later claims of support and would not be able to petition for custody. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642/40 "2008-11-02T14:55:28Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I don’t think the mother/rapist should be able to keep custody of the child, either. Raping someone shows that she either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about the rights of others, and that’s not someone who should be in charge of a child. Should rapists (of either sex) lose custody of any children they already have? What about any children they subsequently produce? What about people that have other violent felony convictions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-male-rape-victims-have-to-pay-child-support/470642.md?page=3)