# Should Michelle Kwan be given a spot on the US Figure Skating squad?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 13, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875 "2006-01-13T20:49:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/21 "2006-01-14T12:07:06Z")
> [@twickster](#):
>
> I find her scary as hell, I really do. She has the eyes of an assassin.
Yes–cold blooded doesn’t even begin to cover it.
And IMO that is why she chokes in every long program–she needs a Xanax (or a good lay–oops, I did not just say that!). I also think she looks down on her competition–and is gunning for Kwan. But that’s pure speculation on my part.
Certainly she lacks grace in her interviews (they come across as mechanical) and a sense of humor…
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### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/22 "2006-01-14T14:47:24Z")
> [@China Guy](#):
>
> according to MSN story this is how the Olympic spots are [earned](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10842026/)
>
> Only the winner of the women’s event is guaranteed a spot on the Olympic team, with the federation’s International Committee selecting the other two athletes after the free skate Saturday night. There are 35 people on the committee, but at least nine will have to recuse themselves because of personal or professional conflicts; a simple majority is needed.
>
> The committee will base its selection on how athletes fared at six competitions. They are, in order of importance: nationals; the 2005 Grand Prix final; the 2005 world championships; the 2005 Four Continents championships; the 2005 Junior Grand Prix final; and the 2005 world junior championships.
If this is the case, then why is she appealing for a spot? Why didn’t the judges give her one in the first place?
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/23 "2006-01-14T14:56:27Z")
> [@middleman](#):
>
> If this is the case, then why is she appealing for a spot? Why didn’t the judges give her one in the first place?
See my post #s 19 and 20 above, because in the only one of the six that she actually competed in she came in fourth!
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/24 "2006-01-14T15:59:19Z")
Exactly. Kwan hasn’t done squat to earn the slot. Period. Whinging little…
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### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/25 "2006-01-14T16:16:42Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#):
>
> See my post #s 19 and 20 above, because in the only one of the six that she actually competed in she came in fourth!
I get that I suppose. What I am still wondering is if the criteria is not just the nationals, but a totality of six events, and she didn’t do well in any of them, on what does she base her appeal?
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### Author:  [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/26 "2006-01-14T18:09:18Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> Exactly. Kwan hasn’t done squat to earn the slot. Period. Whinging little…
Dead wrong. As I said in the pit post, the number of competitors a country can send to the Olympics is determined by how well the country does at the previous world championships. The only reason we have three spots to send three comptetitors is because Kwan & Cohen placed fourth and second. So in fact, the only two people who **earned** slots are Kwan and Cohen.
Last year, our third woman at worlds was Jenny Kirk. She placed, um, 18th, I think. Kirk’s retired. None of the other skaters have contributed in anyway to our getting three places at the Olympics.
And regarding the selection process, aside from Cohen, none of the other skaters have anything to brag about. Meissner was fourth at Jr. Worlds last year and 5th in her senior competitions. Emily Hughes (who I think is a better skater than her sister) placed third at last years World Juniors and also finished nowhere in her senior events this fall. Bebe Liang didn’t compete in world jrs last year. She was third at Nebelhorn, a B list event and fourth at her only Grand Prix event this fall.
The only standout of the younger crowd this fall as Alissa Czisney, who stunk up the joint on Thursday might not even medal here at Nationals.
The young crowd is talented, but it’s hard to see how any of their accomplishments are better than Kwan’s fourth place at worlds last year. Especially when you consider that Kwan is the 9 time US champ, 5 time world champ. None of the younger kids - talented as they are - as anything to compare with that.
It’s not just about who places as Nationals this year. By every other factor, the other kids just don’t measure up.
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### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/27 "2006-01-14T19:02:26Z")
> [@Merneith](#):
>
> Dead wrong. As I said in the pit post, the number of competitors a country can send to the Olympics is determined by how well the country does at the previous world championships. The only reason we have three spots to send three comptetitors is because Kwan & Cohen placed fourth and second. So in fact, the only two people who **earned** slots are Kwan and Cohen.
This is the best rationale I have heard to justify her presence on the olympic team…
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/28 "2006-01-14T21:02:08Z")
I’m shocked this is even under discussion anywhere. The concept of petitioning for a “Bye” is a time-honored tradition in figure skating. The give and take goes with the territory. Merneith has it exactly right. Michelle earned her place on the Olympic team at the last World Championships, and since there’s not another World Championships until AFTER the Olympics, her placing still stands. There’s no question that she should be allowed to go, if she feels she’s up to it.
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/29 "2006-01-14T21:21:48Z")
I’d also like to add that it’s indicative of how whiny our society has become that this is a “controversy” in the first place. Think of the CHILDREN! No, think of the rules and our best chances at medals. Buncha crybabies.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/30 "2006-01-15T03:55:14Z")
I didn’t know the situation, but I saw Katarina Witt & Kurt Browning on TV today, & both said, “of course she’ll go.” If Kurt thinks it’s the right choice, that’s convincing to me. (Though I liked Katarina’s opinion that Kwan should only go if she’s going to medal; that Michelle should not deprive someone else who’s never gone to the Olympics of a chance to be in the Olympics for less.)
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/31 "2006-01-15T05:50:40Z")
What’s the point of even “competing” in any figure skating events if the whole process is just a popularity contest? What a joke. Figure skating is not a sport, it’s simply a form entertainment apparently. Noone competing in a real sport is given anything because they are popular, like Kwan was given today. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/32 "2006-01-15T05:54:06Z")
What do you care anyway? You don’t even think skating should be in the Olympics. Don’t watch.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/33 "2006-01-15T06:20:06Z")
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> What do you care anyway? You don’t even think skating should be in the Olympics. Don’t watch.
I care because I enjoy figure skating. Where did you get the idea that I don’t think figure skating should be in the Olympics? Don’t watch? What the heck does that mean? Why wouldn’t I watch something that I enjoy and care enough about to take time to post about?
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/34 "2006-01-15T06:56:55Z")
I apologise. I’ve read back through this thread and the Pit thread and see that I was mistaken. I now can’t understand why I thought you didn’t think that skating should be in the Olympics. I’m sorry I said it without backup.
I just finished watching the Nationals. I had Tivo’d it because I couldn’t see it live. I assume, based on your post, that Kwan has been allowed to go to the Olympics. I think it’s right, and don’t feel too sorry for Hughes and Liang. They’re very young and have a few Olympics in front of them. Besides, won’t Hughes be allowed to go as an alternate? I don’t know…I’m asking.
I’m just glad that snotty kid who wanted the Hummer gets to stay home. What a priss.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/35 "2006-01-15T07:02:57Z")
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> I’m shocked this is even under discussion anywhere. The concept of petitioning for a “Bye” is a time-honored tradition in figure skating. The give and take goes with the territory. Merneith has it exactly right. Michelle earned her place on the Olympic team at the last World Championships, and since there’s not another World Championships until AFTER the Olympics, her placing still stands. There’s no question that she should be allowed to go, if she feels she’s up to it.
Stuff like this makes me not respect the sport of figure skating. Things like this just makes it seem like everything is decided in smoke filled rooms instead of on the ice.
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/36 "2006-01-15T07:41:05Z")
> [@twickster](#):
>
> Arguably – and I’m quite happy to argue it – she’s the best female figure-skater _ever_. She’s got a weird Olympics jinx thing happening (as did Kurt Browning, who I’d argue is possibly the best male figure-skater ever, and who, despite four World titles, never won an Olympic gold), but if she wants another shot, go ahead and give it to her.
I wouldn’t argue with you. It was nice to see Kurt again tonight. I met him once years ago, right after he did the first quad in competition, and he was a real sweetie.
Did anyone else feel sorry for Kimmy Meissner at last night’s Nationals? She skated a beautiful program but then fell at the very end on a double axel. The audience gave her a wonderful applause, seemingly both giving her credit for the program she had skated until the fall, and trying to make her feel better. The camera cut to her father way up in the stands and he wasn’t clapping at all. He was just sitting there, with a sour/angry look on his face. I don’t know what was on his mind, but he gave the appearance of being angry at his daughter for fucking up and you wondered if she was going to get an earfull when he saw her. Poor girl.
It was cute when they showed Kristi Yamaguchi and her daughter. The daughter noticed their picture up on the big screen first. Sharp eyes for such a little one!
ISiddiqui, whatever. Kwan earned her place at Worlds. All of us who were rooting for her to go will be keeping our fingers crossed that she really is in as good a shape as she says she will be.
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### Author:  [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/37 "2006-01-15T07:42:36Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> Stuff like this makes me not respect the sport of figure skating. Things like this just makes it seem like everything is decided in smoke filled rooms instead of on the ice.
If that means we send our strongest skaters, so be it. And the winner on the ice gets to go too. I don’t see a problem.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/38 "2006-01-15T14:16:10Z")
The team has been chosen: [Kwan, Cohen, and Meissner](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10858216/), with Hughes and Taylor as alternates. Given how the latter two skated last night, I’m okay with this decision.
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### Author:  [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/39 "2006-01-15T15:15:31Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> Stuff like this makes me not respect the sport of figure skating. Things like this just makes it seem like everything is decided in smoke filled rooms instead of on the ice.
No, it was decided at Worlds. Kwan struggled with injury this fall but that doesn’t change the fact that she placed fourth in the world and was instrumental in securing three places for the US at the Olympics.
Perhaps it’s easier to see when one considers that the skating “year” begins and ends in with Worlds in March. It’s not just the fall season that counts. World standings are considered relevant for placements all through the ‘year’ until the next worlds occurs.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-kwan-be-given-a-spot-on-the-us-figure-skating-squad/339875/40 "2006-01-16T04:14:44Z")
Now, after having given Kwan a spot Saturday night, the U.S. Figure Skating Association’s International Committee is aggravating the matter by saying it may yet change its mind: [cite](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13634761.htm). Wth?
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